Stripped valve adjuster threads

[adl]

Well what a surprise I found when I chose this afternoon to adjust my valves, the lower near-side intake valve adjuster was stripped and hanging on by a thread. Unless I can track one down I see a trip to the main stealer for a new one.

[marty hill]

I think you mis-spelled dealer.

[multiplu]

Forget the dealer call Beemerboneyard

[adl]

No, in fact it's spelled correctly. Main Stealer, unless you can show me an example of one that doesn't rip people off?

[scootertrash]

Originally Posted by adl

No, in fact it's spelled correctly. Main Stealer, unless you can show me an example of one that doesn't rip people off?

adl,

I am not a BMW Motorrad dealer, but I respectfully disagree.

I am a car dealer (a very similar and also often much malaigned business model) and I have sought and now have recieved a "Letter of Intent" from BMW Motorrad to open a new dealership in a large metropolitan market. What that means is that provided I do specific things like build a facility to their specifcations, hire and train an agreed upon amount of staff, purchase all the special tools, test equipment, parts inventories, accessories, clothing, etc that I will be their dealer there.

Well guess what? I am considering not doing it. The costs alone to simply build out the interior of an already existing shell to their specifications is north of $700K! Add to that the special tools, parts, clothing, and accessories inventories and we are now well into 7 figures. That's before buying the motorcycle inventory, and hiring and training an entire staff of people. In fact, most franchised motorcycle dealers, excluding maybe Harley, have put their life savings on the line to make a modest living once the smoke clears, and all the bills are paid. Many do it because of their passion for the sport, not the $$.

The bottom line is that guys trying to save $20 on the price of a stripped valve adjuster just don't see it that way. It's that mentality that may very well leave a large, high income population in a large metro market driving an hour to an hour and a half to get that part or service.

Sure, you can site the example here and there where some dealer charged X when this independent only charged Y, but imho, if your local dealer is not charging above BMW's suggested retail price for his parts, and his labor late is competitive with other NEW motorcycle dealerships in your market, You should stop by and shake his hand. Then buy something.

There is a quip often heard among folks in the BMW car business: The cheapest thing on a BMW is the driver.

I feel better now

[adl]

Good man, nothing like a rant to relax a soul. As it happens, the replacement adjuster and accompanying lock nut are only costing me £7 (about $11)
I guess I'm just used to the exorbitant prices we get charged for everything in Ireland. Here in London, it's a happily different story. I'll be getting myself in to BMW in the morning to pick up said part and get my GS back on the road

[Chiba]

Originally Posted by scootertrash

The bottom line is that guys trying to save $20 on the price of a stripped valve adjuster just don't see it that way. It's that mentality that may very well leave a large, high income population in a large metro market driving an hour to an hour and a half to get that part or service.

If I can order a part that, with shipping from California or Chicago or wherever, is going to cost me less than the dealer down the road (plus tax, time, riding to pick it up, etc.) and I come out even or better, I'm probably going to order the part.

I buy my parts from my local(ish) dealer when it's the financially intelligent thing to do.

Am I going to buy brake pads from the dealer? Not when I can get EBC pads for half the price (approx) including shipping. Am I going to buy a genuine BMW oil filter when I can get any other name-brand filter for $5 (or even $10) less?

Face it - the rant goes both directions.

While I don't call *all* dealers "stealerships", I can understand why some people do. An example of why some might use that term is my truck - a '96 Ford Explorer. It desperately needed a tune-up - and I mean desperately. I planned on doing it myself and bought the parts necessary - and nearly all of them online.

The fuel filter I got (online) was $10. The local parts shop wanted $13 for it, but didn't have most of the other parts I needed in stock, including an air filter (really? for an Explorer?). The dealership wanted $16 for the fuel filter and nearly $200 to install it.

Once I got up to $100 in parts, the website shipped them free, and since I needed a bunch of other stuff, it made sense. I saved over $50 buying the parts online instead of at the local parts shop & just under $75 based on the dealership prices. Since I wasn't in a big fat hurry to do the work, I didn't mind waiting for the parts to arrive via UPS.

Eventually I ran out of time to do the work & called the dealer. Based on the work I asked for, they quoted me (on the phone) a price of nearly $1,000 and absolutely refused to use ANY of the parts I had bought - even though some of the parts were Ford OEM!

I called a repair shop down the street. Not only were they happy to use my parts (with the caveat that they had to agree that I bought the correct parts), they did the work for about $250 - just $50 more than the Ford dealer wanted to install the fuel filter alone. The work included replacing all the spark plugs & spark plug wires, which apparently is a pain in the neck on my truck's engine.

So all in all, I was into the tune-up for about $400 in parts & labor, using a combination of the internet and an independent shop - saving myself at least $600 over what the whole shebang would have cost at the dealership.

Tell me - am I supposed to go shake that dealer's hand? Really? $600 covers my utilities for a whole month with some left over. $600 is a third of my rent. $600 is a whole lot of gas (well... maybe not, but that's a different rant, right?).

Just in case you want to say I'm comparing apples (SUVs) to oranges (motorcycles), here's another example.

I had to replace all 3 sets of brake pads & the rear brake disc on my GS.

BMW OEM prices according to A&S BMW (California)
Rear brake pads - $101.95
Rear brake disc - $271.80
Front brake pads - 2 @ $91.33 = $182.66
Total cost, parts only - $556.41
Labor - I'd estimate a dealer would charge in the neighborhood of 2 or 3 hours for this work. @ $95 an hour (which is a common labor rate), that adds at least another $190 to the cost, for a grand (estimated total) of $746.41 - plus tax on the parts. Also, I didn't replace the small parts a dealer's mechanic very well may have forced into the job - the pins that hold the pads in the calipers, the cotter pins, and the no-squeal-thingies on the front brakes. Replacing all that would have added another $53.28 (3@ $17.76) plus tax to the bill.

I got the parts online from Cycle Brakes
Rear brake pads - $34
Rear brake disc - $156
Front brake pads - 2 @ $34 = $68
Shipping - $12
Total cost, parts only - $270

I did the work myself in about 2 hours (hence my estimate for the above). My estimate for OEM parts + dealer labor = $746. Actual cost with online parts & my labor = $270, a savings of over $450.

Yes, my time is worth something. Even if you JUST look at the parts cost, though, the savings is significant.

Dealers are an important part of the vehicle process, but with the rise of the internet and the independent shop/mechanic, they need to realize they're not the only choice - and start acting like it. I readily acknowledge that BMW does not make it easy (or affordable) to start a new dealer, but still - in the end, I make my decisions based on the effect on MY wallet, not yours. If you want my money, you have to offer me something I can't get anywhere else, and it needs to more than cool t-shirts or the possibility of trying on helmets.

--chiba

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by scootertrash

adl,

....Well guess what? I am considering not doing it. The costs alone to simply build out the interior of an already existing shell to their specifications is north of $700K! ....

The bottom line is that guys trying to save $20 on the price of a stripped valve adjuster just don't see it that way. I feel better now

I'm glad you're carefully considering what BMW is asking you for. I just wish BMW corporate would start excercising fiscal responsibility, just as as the average BMW owner has to. Maybe it's time for prospective dealers to just say no to BMW, Harley, GM, etc when they "insist" on dealership models requiring a huge overhead which has to be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices? I don't need fancy marble and glass showrooms with tricked out lighting and fancy displays. In fact I think their time has passed. Todays consumer isn't impressed with that stuff. They purchase their Sony TVs at Sams Club or Cosco, and their Bosche diswhashers at Lowes.

[scootertrash]

Originally Posted by Chiba

If I can order a part that, with shipping from California or Chicago or wherever, is going to cost me less than the dealer down the road (plus tax, time, riding to pick it up, etc.) and I come out even or better, I'm probably going to order the part.

I buy my parts from my local(ish) dealer when it's the financially intelligent thing to do.

Am I going to buy brake pads from the dealer? Not when I can get EBC pads for half the price (approx) including shipping. Am I going to buy a genuine BMW oil filter when I can get any other name-brand filter for $5 (or even $10) less?

Face it - the rant goes both directions.

While I don't call *all* dealers "stealerships", I can understand why some people do. An example of why some might use that term is my truck - a '96 Ford Explorer. It desperately needed a tune-up - and I mean desperately. I planned on doing it myself and bought the parts necessary - and nearly all of them online.

The fuel filter I got (online) was $10. The local parts shop wanted $13 for it, but didn't have most of the other parts I needed in stock, including an air filter (really? for an Explorer?). The dealership wanted $16 for the fuel filter and nearly $200 to install it.

Once I got up to $100 in parts, the website shipped them free, and since I needed a bunch of other stuff, it made sense. I saved over $50 buying the parts online instead of at the local parts shop & just under $75 based on the dealership prices. Since I wasn't in a big fat hurry to do the work, I didn't mind waiting for the parts to arrive via UPS.

Eventually I ran out of time to do the work & called the dealer. Based on the work I asked for, they quoted me (on the phone) a price of nearly $1,000 and absolutely refused to use ANY of the parts I had bought - even though some of the parts were Ford OEM!

I called a repair shop down the street. Not only were they happy to use my parts (with the caveat that they had to agree that I bought the correct parts), they did the work for about $250 - just $50 more than the Ford dealer wanted to install the fuel filter alone. The work included replacing all the spark plugs & spark plug wires, which apparently is a pain in the neck on my truck's engine.

So all in all, I was into the tune-up for about $400 in parts & labor, using a combination of the internet and an independent shop - saving myself at least $600 over what the whole shebang would have cost at the dealership.

Tell me - am I supposed to go shake that dealer's hand? Really? $600 covers my utilities for a whole month with some left over. $600 is a third of my rent. $600 is a whole lot of gas (well... maybe not, but that's a different rant, right?).

Just in case you want to say I'm comparing apples (SUVs) to oranges (motorcycles), here's another example.

I had to replace all 3 sets of brake pads & the rear brake disc on my GS.

BMW OEM prices according to A&S BMW (California)
Rear brake pads - $101.95
Rear brake disc - $271.80
Front brake pads - 2 @ $91.33 = $182.66
Total cost, parts only - $556.41
Labor - I'd estimate a dealer would charge in the neighborhood of 2 or 3 hours for this work. @ $95 an hour (which is a common labor rate), that adds at least another $190 to the cost, for a grand (estimated total) of $746.41 - plus tax on the parts. Also, I didn't replace the small parts a dealer's mechanic very well may have forced into the job - the pins that hold the pads in the calipers, the cotter pins, and the no-squeal-thingies on the front brakes. Replacing all that would have added another $53.28 (3@ $17.76) plus tax to the bill.

I got the parts online from Cycle Brakes
Rear brake pads - $34
Rear brake disc - $156
Front brake pads - 2 @ $34 = $68
Shipping - $12
Total cost, parts only - $270

I did the work myself in about 2 hours (hence my estimate for the above). My estimate for OEM parts + dealer labor = $746. Actual cost with online parts & my labor = $270, a savings of over $450.

Yes, my time is worth something. Even if you JUST look at the parts cost, though, the savings is significant.

Dealers are an important part of the vehicle process, but with the rise of the internet and the independent shop/mechanic, they need to realize they're not the only choice - and start acting like it. I readily acknowledge that BMW does not make it easy (or affordable) to start a new dealer, but still - in the end, I make my decisions based on the effect on MY wallet, not yours. If you want my money, you have to offer me something I can't get anywhere else, and it needs to more than cool t-shirts or the possibility of trying on helmets.

--chiba

First, let me clarify that I am an "independent" car dealership, meaning I am not affilated with BMW or any other manufacturer.

I certainly agree with you that DIYs (do it yourselfers) can and do save significantly on repairs, and personally, when it comes to motorcycles, I prefer to wrench mine myself to satisy my own need to feel the work was done safely and reliably.

To your point on bringing your own parts to a shop for install, here is why we won't do that in our shop. When we buy a part from BMW (or in this case from one of their dealers) and install it in our shop, two things happen. (1) The part comes with a two year warranty, and (2) if it fails, they don't just replace the part, they pay the labor to install it.
Ask yourself this, if you buy a water pump for your car or bike online, and then bring it to me to install, who is going to pay our technician to re-do it if it doesn't seal correctly and it leaks coolant all over your floor? Answer, you should. But here's what happens..
It's a lose/lose situation for us. We've been there. Even if we have you sign off that you understand that we cannot be responsible for a part you bring us, it's "Well, your mechanic must have screwed it up. This was a high quality part." We end up eating the cost of a new part and all the associated labor to avoid a disgruntled customer from disparaging us on the net.

When it comes to aftermarket parts, as a gross generalization, price is consistant with quality. Certainly there are exceptions, EBC being a great example of that, but a motorcycle's cost is really only a sum total of it's parts costs. When one of MY motorcycles needs a new part, I'm usually going to keep it original and in my mind, reliable.

Lastly though, my main point I was trying to make to adl is that although dealerships do charge a good margin for parts and labor, the overhead costs of being there with the right people, the right training, the right tools, the right test equipment, and the right parts leaves a well run dealership owner keeping about 3 CENTS of every dollar of sales. Most average about 2 cents. And that's before taxes! Sounds crazy, but that's the real deal. So when I see someone calling a dealer a stealer, I hope you can see why it makes the hair on the back of my neck go up.

Certainly there is a place for dealerships, independents, and DIYs. There always has been, and there always will be. It's all a matter of priorities.

Thanks for your comments. An insightful discussion.

[scootertrash]

Originally Posted by Wiley

I'm glad you're carefully considering what BMW is asking you for. I just wish BMW corporate would start excercising fiscal responsibility, just as as the average BMW owner has to. Maybe it's time for prospective dealers to just say no to BMW, Harley, GM, etc when they "insist" on dealership models requiring a huge overhead which has to be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices? I don't need fancy marble and glass showrooms with tricked out lighting and fancy displays. In fact I think their time has passed. Todays consumer isn't impressed with that stuff. They purchase their Sony TVs at Sams Club or Cosco, and their Bosche diswhashers at Lowes.

Ahem brother! Unfortunately, the manufacturers all thing it takes that stuff. We've had linoleum floors and laminated wood desks for 19+ years here, and we outsell a lot of the new car dealerships used car centers because "it's the car and the people, stupid"