Why did you sell your 800GS for a 1200GS?

[PunchBuggy]

I noticed a couple of members said this in another thread. I was thinking of getting a F800GS because it is less expensive but if there are good reasons for going with a 1200GS I would like to know what you think.

[AdamWebber]

Shaft Drive on the 12. If they put a shaft on the 800, I'd probably have that one instead.

Well, I've never been on the 800 so I can't say anything about long distance comfort.

I think maintenance on the 12 engine is super easy but also, never worked on the 800 so I can't say.

There was an issue regarding the front axle being too weak on the 800 but I think that it's a recall that is easily fixed.

I hope someone else has better feedback.

[cug]

1) Two-Up Comfort

The F800GS is basically an overweight dirt bike with touring capabilities. Nevertheless, the seat is a royal PITA for rider and pillion, it has a fat ass with the tank under the seat, so luggage for two often gets wide, suspension is okay, but not good for two, Power is more than adequate, no problem there. Would have sold the OEM Adventure Luggage and gotten Jesse if I hadn't sold the bike.

2) Shaft Drive

I hate chains. After the recall they had and some of the stories around it - no, thanks. I'm happy with a shaft drive.

3) The Buffeting

It was killing me. And I tried literally every windshield out there. Short, high, narrow, wide, ugly, less ugly. From cut down F650GS windshield to XL Aeroflow, they all sucked for me.

4) Soft Spoke Wheels

Came already out of true when I got it. Within BMW spec, so no change. Very soft rims, tubed tires (good for some, not good for me). Would have had to spend $2k for 19" front 17" rear, completely new from Woody.


There are some other reasons that I have listed in various places and I'm too lazy now to dig them up. What killed it for me in the end was the buffeting. I just couldn't get rid of it. With the R1200GS I have more miles already and I have it only half the time I had the F800GS. Still love it.

[gsMark]

Cug once again to the rescue!

Actually, I was considering the 800gs as well. I thought "ah, just a few cc less can´t possibly make much difference" but yes, all your points are valid and good.

This forum is enlighten once more with your wisdom. Thanks man!

[scootertrash]

Also,

The vibrations from the paralell twin are different than those of the boxer twin. Although irrelevent during most conditions, at a steady highway cruise at 75mph, my hands were numb and tingling after an hour. Had a hard time getting money out to pay a toll. That ruled it out for me. Nice lightweight bike for knocking around on, imho no good for the highway.

[gsMark]

Originally Posted by scootertrash

Also,

The vibrations from the paralell twin are different than those of the boxer twin. Although irrelevent during most conditions, at a steady highway cruise at 75mph, my hands were numb and tingling after an hour. Had a hard time getting money out to pay a toll. That ruled it out for me. Nice lightweight bike for knocking around on, imho no good for the highway.

Sorry, the problems you are referring to are found in the 800 or the 1200?

Cheers!

Mark.

[cug]

I think I have to chime in once more as I don't feel the F800GS gets a fair treatment from my comment above and as I'm sick at home I can take some time to comment again:

When I bought the F800GS I test rode a 2009 R1200GS and the F800GS back to back on the same day. I bought the F. So, why was that? Here is some insight.

Weight

The F800GS is lighter and feels lighter than the R1200GS. It's easier to flick around, handles lighter and faster, is less of a beast around town. The weight difference between the two bikes was less pronounced for me in the end as I had big protection bars (Adventure Spec) around the engine and the racks for the OEM Adventure cases in the rear. I'm not sure how much weight that added but I wouldn't be surprised if it is in the 15 to 20kg range. I had both bikes with ABS, the R has ESA and some other gimmicks, so I guess the weight difference in the end between my personal bikes was around 10 to 15kg. Still noticeable, but barely so. Nevertheless the F was the lighter feeling bike, probably because of less bulk.


Engine

Personally, I like the 800cc twin engine better than the boxer. The boxer is agricultural at best, stubborn, vibey, too lean at worst. The inline twin has a better and more usable power band. From 2.5k to 5k rpm it was smooth and very usable. The boxer is smooth and nice between 3k and 4k rpm. The F gets more annoying once you exceed 5k, while the boxer doesn't get as bad but has still quite some annoying vibrations. Different vibrations though. The engine I like most so far is the Triple in the Tiger 1050. Haven't ridden the new 800 yet, but I think that might be a great bike.

Also, the boxer feels weird to some people (me included). With the lean fuel / air mix it is jerky at low revs, doesn't like puttering around all too much, basically, the emission restrictions have castrated the boxer from the things it does best. A BoosterPlug or Accelerator rectifies that mostly, I don't use one but I had the basic Accelerator and know the effect it had. If I ride more dirt roads / offroad I will probably either get one of those again or a BoosterPlug. Just better for the clutch.


Seat Comfort

If you get an aftermarket seat that fits you properly, I guess it comes close to a tie, but the two part R seat is still more versatile with regard to variable height.

I recently got a used GS Adventure seat and rode around with it for a while but it wasn't for me. The Adventure seat has the same dreaded forward slope that made the OEM seat on the F so unbearable for me. The low seat in combination with an Airhawk on the F is very usable though.

Best OEM seat I have ridding so far is again on the Tiger 1050 closely followed by the R1200GS seat which is actually surprisingly good if you are not too heavy. People have told me they sink through the foam down to the plastic base on the R, which I haven't encountered at all. But I'm just 155 lbs, so maybe it works just for me.

Still, nothing that can't be fixed on the F. A Sargent or Corbin or Rick's ... or whatever will take care of that problem.


Offroad Capabilities

Not so important for me. The R is good enough, the F is definitely a lot better. So, if your riding involves more dirt and / or harder dirt roads, the F is probably the better choice.

Still, because of the capabilities off road, the F is also easier to handle in tight areas, city riding, and so on. It's just a bit less jerky and heavy.


Chain

I hate chains, so the shaft is what I absolutely love on my R. Nevertheless, install a quality chain on the F and keep it somewhat clean and lubricated and it is more predictable than a shaft. You just know you'll have to replace it from time to time and wear is easily gauged by just looking at it.

The shaft final drive can fail at any time without much warning. I just don't worry about it and keep my BMW road side assistance card in my jacket and my credit card handy. For the rest: I think the final drive should good for the same distance as four to five chain / sprocket sets and therefore in the end a rebuild / fix is about the same price or even cheaper when you ride long distance.

Shaft is just more convenient as long as it works. And I strongly believe that it generally does.


Tank / Mileage

When I was riding with my wife (she on her DR200SE) over small backroads here in the Santa Cruz mountains and South Bay Area, the F got up to 60mpg. The R gets up to 47mpg if I'm really careful. Normally I was in the 49 to 53mpg range on the F and I'm in the 42 to 45mpg range on the R. Fuel range on both bikes is comparable. When going a really careful pace, the F actually has a slight edge over the R, even with the one gallon smaller tank. I like efficient engines and the inline twin is a very good engine in that regard.


Reliability

I had no problems with my F, but I only had it for close to 5k miles, therefore I would have been surprised had I encountered any troubles. But overall I feel the R is a better made bike, better overall quality and more "test miles" already done and used for improvement. Of course, both have their trouble spots, but so far I feel that the ones on the R are less because of poor quality components like the soft rims or the poor plastic on the fuel tank, but more due to manufacturing variances and / or some bad luck.

Personally, I trust the R a little bit more than the F, but that's just gut feeling. No experience.


Windshield

A big topic for me, a non-existent one for others. Very personal. I have mostly solved it on the R. I might have been able to solve it on the F but was unlucky in windshield selection.


Two Up Comfort / Power

Many people say that the R is the "much more competent bike two-up" compared to the F. That is bullshit. Crank up the pre-load on the F and install a decent seat and you're good to go. The differences are mainly the dirt bike style seat on the F and the availability of ESA on the R.

My wife has never ever complained about comfort on the F and we had the crappy OEM low seat (which was more comfortable for me than the high seat - I didn't need the low at all for height, I have 34" inseam and can flat foot a GSA with the seat in high position). But you also have to keep in mind that my wife does five hour rides on her DR200SE and has no problems with the original seat on that little thumper. She's a tough chick ...

The F has more than enough power to handle all situations two-up comfortably, if people say otherwise they are unaware of what 99.9% actually do when they ride two-up: go a bit slower, a bit more careful because of more responsibility and weight. I scraped the centerstand with my wife on the back of the F, I easily passed cars and trucks on the highway, the bike can go any legal speed and way beyond legal for hours on without a hickup.

If people say they need a 1200cc engine for two-up they should rather get a gym membership or a big honking sedan. Sorry, to be so blunt, but this topic is typical American. "Normal people" ride Scooters around the world while American moms think they need a Suburban to get their daughters to soccer practice. Just a lot of BS and spoiled, dumb, environmentally ignorant, but very noisy and vocal people.

Try it for yourself: I rode around on a Vespa for years with my girl friend - never had any trouble but incredible amounts of fun. I loved that Scooter and long term plan on getting one again.

Don't get me wrong: I do appreciate comfort and style and relaxed power, but what some people think they need is just plain beyond even unreasonable thinking.


Power / Acceleration / Speed

I prefer small backroads for my fun. I'm slow on highways or long sweepers. But give me roads like Page Mill Road, Alpine Road, Old La Honda, Summit Rd, ... and I have frustrated some 1000cc sport bike riders on my F800GS and on the R1200GS and probably would on a WR250X. It all depends on the rider of course but the upright seating and the wide handle bars and the confident body position make it much easier in REALLY tight areas and that's what I like. The F had more than enough power and I probably never really used it all.


Farkles

I have made some bad choices with farkles on the F, and I'm not going to repeat them on the R. That's just experience. If you get the F, be careful what luggage system you select. I think for the F bikes, the Jesse cases are the absolute best as they bring the weight closer in then any other system which is crucial for neutral handling. When I loaded my F with the OEM Adventure cases, handling was noticeably affected because the weight was so far out from the centerline.

For the R I'm still looking for luggage that fits my needs and I really haven't found anything that I completely like. It might be that I go with a Micatech setup and lowered exhaust or a combination of Micatech luggage and Metal Mule exhaust. Still looking, measuring, talking to people.

To be clear: farkles for both are available, no advantage for either.


F or R

If you plan to ride 80% paved roads, lots of two up (it is more comfortable, but not more capable), haul a lot of gear plus the kitchen sink, hate chain maintenance, and appreciate gadgets like ESA, ASC, ... you might be better off with the R1200GS. Just don't expect to be able to go and have a blast on real trails, real off-road with that beast. The R can handle a surprising amount of "off-road", but I would take it slower there than on a F800GS.

If you plan to ride more dirt roads, real off-road, some trails or tougher fire roads, don't mind chain maintenance and select your farkles carefully, the F800GS is an absolute awesome bike. With the price difference of what you typically find at dealers, you can add a seat, a second set of wheels incl. tires from Woody, Jesse cases, a bunch of different windshield and other farkles, protection bars, a top case, and still have $2k or more left to go on several vacations.

Also, don't forget the competition: the Yamaha Super Tenere is a surprisingly good feeling bike, lots of room for rider and passenger, though a lot of gadgets / gimmicks are missing and it has to proof it's long term reliability; the Tiger 800XC is a real tough competitor for the F800GS and I would probably choose it over the F any given day because of the sweet Triple engine, the two piece seat, and the angle adjustable windshield.

If you stay purely on paved roads, there is also the Ducati Multistrada and the Tiger 1050. Given a free choice between the two, I'd take the Ducati. Then sell it, get a Tiger 1050 and tons of farkles and still have a couple thousand bucks left ...

But, and that's probably the most important thing: motorcycle selection is highly personal. Way more personal than cars. So, come up with what is important for you and see how the available models fit all those requirements.

[pdxrmccgs]

Does the F have a Chinese engine?

[cug]

Originally Posted by pdxrmccgs

Does the F have a Chinese engine?

It's a Rotax - I don't know where it's build, but it might very well be somewhere in Asia. It seems to be a fairly reliable engine with only few people having trouble after 50k or more miles.

But the engine isn't around long enough to really gauge reliability and longevity.

[pdxrmccgs]

"I was surprised to see a BMW 650cc engine inside the factory. First I thought that it was a sample for benchmarking, but when I saw a whole line of engines, I was shocked. Soon I came to know that Loncin is the OEM for some of BMW’s engines. Quite cool to see a German motorcycle’s engine being manufactured in China."

http://bikeadvice.in/visit-loncin-mo...ongqing-china/