Fuel Grade - Page 2 - BMW R1200GS Forum : R1200 GS Forums
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 19-Jan-2019, 05:38 PM (985)
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Originally Posted by Twisty View Post
The higher the octane, the cooler the engine runs. If the outside temp is hot (say >90F), I tend to put in higher octane. The few times I've put in lower octane (87) when the ambient temp was high, the bike did seem to run hotter, once actually triggering a dash warning. In the cooler riding seasons I don't hesitate to use lower octane.
Do some research as "The higher the octane, the cooler the engine runs." is not a true statement. Octane is basically a resistance to detonation not burn rate. Lean vs. Rich is one of the things that can cause a big change in engine temps.

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 20-Jan-2019, 04:24 AM (433)
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A fuel station nearby has ethanol free 86 octane I tried it my 06 GS and it pinged so back to 91/93 octane w/ ethanol as anything lower pings under load.

Agreed octane has nothing to do with cooling. Also higher octane fuel is not better than lower octane fuels it just has more anti-knock additives in it. Gasoline is gasoline the additives package is what makes it different from grade to grade and supplier to supplier. The moral of the story is to get the most efficient is use the lowest grade fuel you engine will consume with out pinging aka pre-ignition/detonation
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 20-Jan-2019, 05:26 AM (476)
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I run 91 octane in my 16 GS and 18 k1600 with all the crap that is added or removed from fuel a higher octane is not going to hurt your GS. Yes it will run on 87 and 89 if you want all your performance and piece of mind spend the extra buck at the pump.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 20-Jan-2019, 08:51 AM (619)
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The "Cognitive Dissonance" associated with the "Octane Wars" rivals only the Oil and Tire threads for idiocracy. JSNS
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 23-Jan-2019, 07:01 PM (042)
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In British Columbia Canada, all the Chevron stations carry 94 octane gas without ethanol. I use this in my bikes, cars and even my lawn mower. I never have a problem with injectors or carbs clogging up. This gas appears to be hard to find in the US.
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 24-Jan-2019, 07:53 AM (578)
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The "Cognitive Dissonance" associated with the "Octane Wars" rivals only the Oil and Tire threads for idiocracy. JSNS
Not sure I'd call it cognitive dissonance, maybe more Clarke's Law ("Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic") in action. BMW's technology has reached a level where a lot of it is mysterious even to a pretty advanced gearhead. Part of the reason is that an increasing amount of stuff is done in proprietary software, so the best we can do by way of understanding what's going on is to reverse-engineer a model of how the code might work. And with this comes a bit of "magical" thinking. Did the bike somehow seem to work "better" when I put no-ethanol premium into it? Somebody else said theirs did... and maybe this mysterious and expensive piece of technology will not smite me if I show it how much I care by putting in the most expensive fuel, or oil, or tires...

BTW: beware gasoline labeling in the corn belt. A lot of stations have taken to calling 87-octane with ethanol "SUPER":
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 24-Jan-2019, 08:19 AM (597)
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Best treatise I've seen on the subject. Factual and unopinionated discourse:

Thank you to my friend for posting elsewhere

Post by Pterodactyl Ľ Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:41 pm

Ethanol Info from an Expert

On another forum a lad posted a response he got to some questions he asked a SUNOCO technical guy. I thought them interesting:

Yes, all Sunoco pump fuels (87-93AKI) are Top Tier and have the same level of ultratech detergent. Sunoco Race Fuels that are unleaded (95-104AKI) also contain a high level of UltraTech detergent but are not officially Top Tier. Our Race fuels have always exceeded performance requirements of Top Tier but we have not submitted them for certification because Top Tier is directed at pump fuel issues. Sunoco Race Fuels have been tested to be about 10 times cleaner than pump fuels.

Octane is a measurement of resistance to pre-ignition, detonation or spontaneous combustion. There are many factors that influence the octane rating required for each engine. Some of those factors are compression ratio, engine operating temperature, Air/Fuel ratio and bore size. Following the manufactures octane recommendation will ensure that the engine isnít damaged from octane related problems. Using a higher octane fuel wonít hurt performance and is like having more insurance than you need. Octane is only one of many important factors that control how a fuel performs in an engine. Since octane rating is how we choose different grades at the pump many people latch on to that being the only difference between the fuels.

Ethanol in fuels is an endless topicÖ Ethanol can be spun in many ways so I will try to only provide facts and not opinions.
Ethanol has a lower energy density(Btu/Pound) than gasoline (11,500 vs 18,600).
Ethanol has a higher liquid density(lbs/gallon) than gasoline (6.60 vs 6.08).
The above numbers can be rearranged to show energy density as Btu/gallon. Ethanol is lower than gasoline (75,900 vs 113,100) a 10% ethanol blend will have about 4% less energy per gallon and this can be seen in real life as fewer mpg.
Ethanol is about 35% oxygen by weight. Fuels with oxygen in them will increase efficiency of the engine and allow for overall better performance. A 10% ethanol blend will have better performance than a pure gasoline fuel. The difference in performance is about 1% for this case. 100 HP on gasoline would be 101 HP on an E10 blend.
Ethanol will readily absorb water from humid air and draw moisture into a fuel system. This is the reason lawnmowers and other small equipment will get water in the fuel. Modern cars have sealed fuel systems and donít see this issue as much. Small equipment fuel systems will typically have a vent to atmosphere which allows water to find its way in.
Pure ethanol has an excellent storage life like many other pure chemicals when stored in a sealed container. Sunoco 260 GT is 100 octane, 10% ethanol fuel. We have tested this fuel stored in drums for over 2 years and the fuel still meets all our manufacturing specs. Ethanol doesnít decrease the storage life but it can compromise fuel by bringing in water.
Pump gasoline components are not as stable as pure chemicals and stability tends to decrease with octane because lower octane fuels contain more low quality hydrocarbons. 87 octane, 10% ethanol fuel is 83 octane gasoline mixed with ethanol. The ethanol bumps the octane up to 87. Using regular grade 87 octane fuel in small equipment causes many of the issues blamed on ethanol. Small equipment is stored for months or seasons with low grade gasoline that is only designed for a storage life of a few months. This is what shows up as varnish and brown gunk in small equipment. Mix than with ethanol bringing in water and you have a situation that leads to corrosion and costly repairs.
Premium(91 or 93AKI) will have a better storage life than regular (87) and 89 is a mix of the 2 grades. Using a premium fuel will help keep the fuel system clean and reduce chances of fuel related issues. If the bike will be stored for long times like winter it would be a good idea to fill up with non-ethanol fuel with the highest octane you can find.

I hope this helps,

Zachary Santner
Technical Specialist
SUNOCO RACE FUELS
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 24-Jan-2019, 09:25 PM (142)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkor View Post
In British Columbia Canada, all the Chevron stations carry 94 octane gas without ethanol. I use this in my bikes, cars and even my lawn mower. I never have a problem with injectors or carbs clogging up. This gas appears to be hard to find in the US.
In Texas we call Top Tier high octane no ethanol gas "Unicorn" !

Dave
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 25-Jan-2019, 08:49 AM (617)
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Not really that hard to find.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

Mark
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 25-Jan-2019, 09:51 AM (661)
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Doesn't seem to mater what fuel I use, it all works. FWIW, I run "76 Brand" premium, works great. I took a trip to Mexico and used "PMEX Magna Sin" supposedly 90 octane, lead free. Ran into no problems.

John

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