Honda Sales vs Harley Sales - BMW R1200GS Forum : R1200 GS Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 27-Jan-2019, 07:05 AM (545) Thread Starter
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Honda Sales vs Harley Sales

In 2017 Harley Davidson sold a bit over 240,000 motorcycles. Same year Honda sold over 17,000,000. Yikes! Although the sticker price of an average Honda is considerably less than the average Harley, the sales volume dwarfs Harley Davidson.

I'm not sure where BMW ranks in this comparison but what little I know they are stable and seeing some growth in the US with sales increases in Europe, especially France. Harley continues to lose volume and share with the blame being put on younger riders that ride for utility, not style or for a hobby.

BMW I strongly suspect will continue the push into smaller, more utilitarian motorcycles and electrics in that category will probably see a lot of growth.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 27-Jan-2019, 07:24 AM (558)
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Harley's will be dirt cheap in the used bike sales market. In the last 6 months, I have had at least 6 friends asking me if anyone I know wants to buy theirs. If I was a Harley lover I would buy one of these..... but my GS has spoiled me. Sadly when I go to an event most of the HD riders are aging and not doing well. HD seems to have ventured into the small bike market way too late to the party.

If anyone is in the market for one of these P M me and I will hook you up. I am in South Florida.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 27-Jan-2019, 12:03 PM (752)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crucian View Post
I'm not sure where BMW ranks in this comparison...
From the BMW 2017 Annual report:

Motorcycle Segment 2017 deliveries: 164,153 up 13.2% from the 145,032 deliveries in 2016.

Where they were delivered:
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 27-Jan-2019, 06:18 PM (012)
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$5000 in chrome

Every HD person I saw at the dealer for a trade in said it has $5000 in upgrades (chrome) and thought that increased the value. NO!
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 28-Jan-2019, 03:05 AM (378)
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Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
Harley's will be dirt cheap in the used bike sales market. In the last 6 months, I have had at least 6 friends asking me if anyone I know wants to buy theirs. If I was a Harley lover I would buy one of these..... but my GS has spoiled me. Sadly when I go to an event most of the HD riders are aging and not doing well. HD seems to have ventured into the small bike market way too late to the party.

If anyone is in the market for one of these P M me and I will hook you up. I am in South Florida.

No need to look any further than your local CL motorcycle page if you are in the used Harley market. CL is absolutely saturated with HD's.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 28-Jan-2019, 05:47 PM (991) Thread Starter
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From the BMW 2017 Annual report:

Motorcycle Segment 2017 deliveries: 164,153 up 13.2% from the 145,032 deliveries in 2016.:
So, HD in '17 sold 80,000 more bikes than BMW's 164,000. What matters I guess with either marquee is the trend. BMW has their four wheel sales to lean on to cover R&D and overhead, as opposed to HD and BMW is trending up, HD down.

What astounds me is that for instance, Honda sold 120:1 over BMW in '17. What does this mean? I'm a BMW man but holy two wheel, Honda is the King which instructs where the demand lies. I don't think BMW is, or should be chasing that kind of volume but they have to be looking at the market and offering motorcycles that are more mass market than my beloved R1200GSA?

I was raised on internal combustion vehicles but me thinks in 20 years, electrics will rule (ala) Honda.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 29-Jan-2019, 01:38 PM (818)
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Harley just announced a recall today on 44, 000 bikes built from 2015 - current.

Harley-Davidson has recalled 43,908 of its Street motorcycles for a brake issue that could cause a crash and has temporarily stopped shipping those models.

The recall, which includes 12,800 motorcycles sold in the U.S., wasn’t published on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website because of the government shutdown.

Harley, however, says it has notified its dealers and customers that Street 750 and Street 500 models manufactured in the U.S. from May 19, 2015, through Dec. 6, 2018, are subject to the recall.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 29-Jan-2019, 11:30 PM (229)
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Motorcycle brand sales numbers

The motorcycle sales numbers might have somethings to do with the failure rates numbers. This chart came from the Consumers Reports. The Japanese brands are more trouble free. As you can see Harleys have a lower failure rate than our BMW's.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 30-Jan-2019, 04:10 AM (423) Thread Starter
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The motorcycle sales numbers might have somethings to do with the failure rates numbers.
Or more likely serving up what Asian markets want from two wheel travel which is the need (desire) for economical, utilitarian transport. Big, full featured bikes are a luxury item and according to polls, younger Western riders are also leaning in the utilitarian direction.

Comparing basic bikes to large bore full featured electronic laden motorcycles with regard to "failure" rates is not an apples to apples comparison. Whine: The beast got me there but the TPM mis-reported tire pressure - (failure?).

Big bikes are here to stay but the growth and diversity of offerings in less fully feathered bikes, including electrics, is likely to accelerate among the "Western" manufacturers.

Harley, especially, (Stock Symbol HOG), has core identification with half ton cruisers so their effort to diversify is more difficult which is reflected in continuing loss of unit sales. Adventure bikes broke that mold combining good cruising capability coupled with utilitarian appeal. Smart move...BMW.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 30-Jan-2019, 11:00 AM (708)
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The motorcycle sales numbers might have somethings to do with the failure rates numbers. This chart came from the Consumers Reports. The Japanese brands are more trouble free. As you can see Harleys have a lower failure rate than our BMW's.
Failure could be a lamp, a loose screw, a hard Bluetooth communication, or something minor, and since the expensive bikes are more complicated there is a higher probability of minor problems. And of course a consumer that spends 20K on a bike will be more sensitive to minor issues than a consumer that spends 2K on a scooter. Most of the Honda’s 17.000.000 sales are small displacement bikes made for markets of low income per capita etc India. On the other hand BMW and Harley are targeted at high income consumers and their profit percentage is much higher. Although there is a higher failure rate for the expensive marques, the dealer network and the mother companies take care of most problems and therefore keep their customers coming back.
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