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My set up was done to pass IBR style rally technical inspections (needless to say this plastic strapped on tank will not - if that is a concern)

I used the main tank vent "hole" to plumb in the aux tank - there is a little rubber flapper valve in the red junction I removed and VERY carefully reamed the 1/8'ish hole in the top of the tank and in the red plastic junction. The vent line to the canister is simply plugged, the entire fuel system vents via the aux. tank. It works very well - the aux tank is drawn into the main tank "first" - then the main tank is used. My fuel gauge works with this set-up; shows a full tank as the Aux tank is used then counts down the main tank.

I built the aux tank brackets out of aluminum bar stock and incorporated an Alt Rider rear rack plate to hold the "rally case". I'm VERY happy with the set-up; the seal at the tank/red junction do-dad is sensitive (assemble dry/don't over tighten) but I've had no leaks. The Aux tank has a shut off valve, but it must remain open at all times (while running) to vent the fuel system.

If the aux tank is full, you can get a few fumes leaching out into the garage - I've learned to simply make sure I "land" at home with little or no fuel in the aux tank. The other thing with this set-up is to NOT overfill the main tank and spill fuel into the overflow canister - that will also give you undesirable fumes because the fuel cannot be drawn via the disconnected tank vent.


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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
While I have nothing against IBR I could care less about their standards as I do not participate. I have put in days that easily meet or exceed the requirements for a certificate but honestly paying $50 for them to give me a piece of paper that certifies what have done is a waste of $50.

Even if I were following IBR standards, I am grossly over the allowable 11 gallon limit the second I connect a 12L slave to the GSA's 33L main tank. My slave tank is not baffled and is over the 1-gallon limitation for no baffles needed. Funny thing is I could throw in a piece of tank foam or piece aluminum angle and say it's now got a baffle. Since the IBR does not specifically spell out what or how baffles are to be installed or configure it and interpretation. When it comes to tank itself again there is no build standard it's the discretion of the inspector to approve or deny. You do not have to prove what material or thickness is used the inspector pushes on the tank to see if it deflects too much. Very scientific

I'm not sure why people are so accepting of a paper-thin aluminum cylinder as a "safe" vessel, but a Coast Guard approved thick plastic tank designed to carry gasoline creates such a fuss. I had one of the spun aluminum tanks and they are not thick, and you can dent them if you push or squeeze then hard enough.
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While I have nothing against IBR I could care less about their standards as I do not participate. I have put in days that easily meet or exceed the requirements for a certificate but honestly paying $50 for them to give me a piece of paper that certifies what have done is a waste of $50.

Even if I were following IBR standards, I am grossly over the allowable 11 gallon limit the second I connect a 12L slave to the GSA's 33L main tank. My slave tank is not baffled and is over the 1-gallon limitation for no baffles needed. Funny thing is I could throw in a piece of tank foam or piece aluminum angle and say it's now got a baffle. Since the IBR does not specifically spell out what or how baffles are to be installed or configure it and interpretation. When it comes to tank itself again there is no build standard it's the discretion of the inspector to approve or deny. You do not have to prove what material or thickness is used the inspector pushes on the tank to see if it deflects too much. Very scientific

I'm not sure why people are so accepting of a paper-thin aluminum cylinder as a "safe" vessel, but a Coast Guard approved thick plastic tank designed to carry gasoline creates such a fuss. I had one of the spun aluminum tanks and they are not thick, and you can dent them if you push or squeeze then hard enough.
'
To clarify - the IBR technical inspection is used for competitive rally's - not certificates - that's just riding - competitive rallies are an entirely different thing - not everybody's cut of tea to push the envelope - it's best described as a scavenger hunt on steroids, rode under difficult time constants in any weather and down virtually any style/condition of road (summit of Mt Evans at o'dark thirty) - rides beyond anything you'd do for a certificate. The IBR (and most other rally organizations) require an aux fuel cell to be metal, attached firmly to the bike, etc - it's all about not catching fire 😉 I assure you; this tank is not going to dent if you push on it or "squeeze it hard enough" - the baffle consists of an aluminum divider with holes - your summarization of an IBR tech inspection is far from accurate, the rules are well specified while allowing for creative flexibility - not much different than any motorsports rule book.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
To clarify - the IBR technical inspection is used for competitive rally's - not certificates - that's just riding - competitive rallies are an entirely different thing - not everybody's cut of tea to push the envelope - it's best described as a scavenger hunt on steroids, rode under difficult time constants in any weather and down virtually any style/condition of road (summit of Mt Evans at o'dark thirty) - rides beyond anything you'd do for a certificate. The IBR (and most other rally organizations) require an aux fuel cell to be metal, attached firmly to the bike, etc - it's all about not catching fire 😉 I assure you; this tank is not going to dent if you push on it or "squeeze it hard enough" - the baffle consists of an aluminum divider with holes - your summarization of an IBR tech inspection is far from accurate, the rules are well specified while allowing for creative flexibility - not much different than any motorsports rule book.
No clarity needed on the definition of what the IBA is or does. We are all aware it's about riding longs distance within a certain time frame. Not even sure why IBA was brought up as my set up was never intended for participation in IBA events.

In any event feel free to post the rules and regulations of IBA fuel tank construction parameters and allowable materials. Other than stating NASCAR or NHRA compliant (doubtful a spin aluminum can with a bung welded in the bottom is compliant in either race organization) it really states nothing about how to or what materials are to be used.

Does the IBA allow Rotopax or the equal? Just wondering?
 

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No clarity needed on the definition of what the IBA is or does. We are all aware it's about riding longs distance within a certain time frame. Not even sure why IBA was brought up as my set up was never intended for participation in IBA events.

In any event feel free to post the rules and regulations of IBA fuel tank construction parameters and allowable materials. Other than stating NASCAR or NHRA compliant (doubtful a spin aluminum can with a bung welded in the bottom is compliant in either race organization) it really states nothing about how to or what materials are to be used.

Does the IBA allow Rotopax or the equal? Just wondering?
No, the Rotopax are not allowed. As for bringing the IBR rules up it was simply to share that safety guidance is available (never know how knowledgeable folks are on these forums.)

IBR Rules are here:
IBR2017Rules_032016 (ironbutt.org)

Minnesota's Team Strange rules (below) are very similar (baffles not required is one difference) to the IBR's but I think Team Starnge's rules are little better written (sorry the copy and paste lost the formatting).

II. AUXILIARY FUEL SYSTEMS: 1. An auxiliary fuel system is not required. 2. If a fuel log is required, motorcycles carrying less than seven U.S. gallons of fuel may be awarded bonus points for maintaining the log, even if no such log is kept during the rally. Riders will be advised in advance of the rally regarding fuel log requirements, if any. 3. Auxiliary fuel systems must conform as follows: A. Container construction must adhere to one of the following types: (1) Metal containers are allowed, however, the paper-thin metal containers designed for outboard marine applications are not acceptable nor are plastic fuel tanks taken from snowmobiles. (2) NASCAR, IHRA and NHRA fuel cells are acceptable (approval/certification of the sanctioning body must be stamped on the cell). (3) Champion, FuelSafe, Harwood Industries, JAZ Products, Summit Racing Equipment, Tulsa Enterprises, Major Engineering, James/Haugen and Reno BMW cells are acceptable. (4) Primary (main) fuel tank expansion is allowed, however, such expansion must be made of compatible materials and gauge (thickness) of the main tank. For example, adding a large plastic expansion to your motorcycle's main aluminum tank is not allowed. B. Auxiliary tank must be mounted in a secure manner, no movement allowed, no bungee or shock cord allowed. USE OF GAS CANS/CONTAINERS IS PROHIBITED. Our intention is to allow the use of a safe, permanently mounted fuel cell, or safe main tank expansion. The use of gas cans, bottles or carriers is not allowed. Use of RotoPax style mounted external fuel cans or similar external fuel cans is not allowed. Non-permanentlymounted gas cans or containers are not allowed on the motorcycle even if empty. C. Fuel lines must be routed to preclude interference with the operation of the motorcycle. D. An electric fuel pump, if used, must be properly wired and fused. E. The fuel tank must be properly vented for pressure buildup and overflow and to direct any overflow away from the rear tire or hot surfaces. TeamStrange Uniform Rules Revision: 01-Jan-2021 Page 5 of 16 F. Overall capacity is limited to eleven and one-half (11.5) U.S. gallons. Sidecar and trike entries may carry fifteen and one-half (15.5) U.S. gallons. USE OF GAS CANS/CONTAINERS IS PROHIBITED. G. Fuel capacity may be measured at any time on any entered motorcycle as deemed necessary by the Rallymaster by any technique deemed appropriate. The decision of the Rallymaster, even if arbitrary and capricious, is final. H. Minnesota 1000 riders running with auxiliary fuel shall be assigned to the Expert class, unless otherwise directed by the Rallymaster. I. For an overflow tank that exceeds maximum capacity or a non-permanent capacityreducing modification top reduce capacity below maximum (such as a chain or empty bottle inserted into the fuel tank), we will start from the position that if the actual or calculated total capacity is more than 11.5 gallons, it’s not legal. It would be up to the rider to convince the Rallymaster that it would not merely be “extremely difficult and oppressively time consuming to fill” or make use of the overflow or excess capacity, but that it would be essentially impossible to do, or that it would actually be a hindrance to do so under rally conditions and could not possibly provide any unfair advantage. J. Neither anti-slosh foam nor anti-slosh baffles are required, nor are they forbidden
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
No, the Rotopax are not allowed. As for bringing the IBR rules up it was simply to share that safety guidance is available (never know how knowledgeable folks are on these forums.)

IBR Rules are here:
IBR2017Rules_032016 (ironbutt.org)

Minnesota's Team Strange rules (below) are very similar (baffles not required is one difference) to the IBR's but I think Team Starnge's rules are little better written (sorry the copy and paste lost the formatting).

II. AUXILIARY FUEL SYSTEMS: 1. An auxiliary fuel system is not required. 2. If a fuel log is required, motorcycles carrying less than seven U.S. gallons of fuel may be awarded bonus points for maintaining the log, even if no such log is kept during the rally. Riders will be advised in advance of the rally regarding fuel log requirements, if any. 3. Auxiliary fuel systems must conform as follows: A. Container construction must adhere to one of the following types: (1) Metal containers are allowed, however, the paper-thin metal containers designed for outboard marine applications are not acceptable nor are plastic fuel tanks taken from snowmobiles. (2) NASCAR, IHRA and NHRA fuel cells are acceptable (approval/certification of the sanctioning body must be stamped on the cell). (3) Champion, FuelSafe, Harwood Industries, JAZ Products, Summit Racing Equipment, Tulsa Enterprises, Major Engineering, James/Haugen and Reno BMW cells are acceptable. (4) Primary (main) fuel tank expansion is allowed, however, such expansion must be made of compatible materials and gauge (thickness) of the main tank. For example, adding a large plastic expansion to your motorcycle's main aluminum tank is not allowed. B. Auxiliary tank must be mounted in a secure manner, no movement allowed, no bungee or shock cord allowed. USE OF GAS CANS/CONTAINERS IS PROHIBITED. Our intention is to allow the use of a safe, permanently mounted fuel cell, or safe main tank expansion. The use of gas cans, bottles or carriers is not allowed. Use of RotoPax style mounted external fuel cans or similar external fuel cans is not allowed. Non-permanentlymounted gas cans or containers are not allowed on the motorcycle even if empty. C. Fuel lines must be routed to preclude interference with the operation of the motorcycle. D. An electric fuel pump, if used, must be properly wired and fused. E. The fuel tank must be properly vented for pressure buildup and overflow and to direct any overflow away from the rear tire or hot surfaces. TeamStrange Uniform Rules Revision: 01-Jan-2021 Page 5 of 16 F. Overall capacity is limited to eleven and one-half (11.5) U.S. gallons. Sidecar and trike entries may carry fifteen and one-half (15.5) U.S. gallons. USE OF GAS CANS/CONTAINERS IS PROHIBITED. G. Fuel capacity may be measured at any time on any entered motorcycle as deemed necessary by the Rallymaster by any technique deemed appropriate. The decision of the Rallymaster, even if arbitrary and capricious, is final. H. Minnesota 1000 riders running with auxiliary fuel shall be assigned to the Expert class, unless otherwise directed by the Rallymaster. I. For an overflow tank that exceeds maximum capacity or a non-permanent capacityreducing modification top reduce capacity below maximum (such as a chain or empty bottle inserted into the fuel tank), we will start from the position that if the actual or calculated total capacity is more than 11.5 gallons, it’s not legal. It would be up to the rider to convince the Rallymaster that it would not merely be “extremely difficult and oppressively time consuming to fill” or make use of the overflow or excess capacity, but that it would be essentially impossible to do, or that it would actually be a hindrance to do so under rally conditions and could not possibly provide any unfair advantage. J. Neither anti-slosh foam nor anti-slosh baffles are required, nor are they forbidden
Two sections that jump out at me are highlighted in red. I am not seeing where marine fuel tanks are prohibited or even mentioned and actually the slave tank is to match or be compatible with the main tank material. In my instance both are made of gasoline compatible plastic and of similar thickness. The Attwood aux tank is probably a bit thicker. I'll agree that my tank is currently held in place with Rox straps however if you read my posts, I am in the process of making a dedicated cradle for my set up that will not require "soft" straps to secure the fuel cell to the pillion deck plate.

Here is an excerpt gleaned from the IBA site on fuel cells and the scientific testing. Statements like "welds that appear to be leak free" and "Adequate look welds" lead me to believe they are not as stringent as we are led to believe ??

If you want to get a custom tank approved by IBA, you basically have to get Dale Wilson (IBA Chief Inspector) or Tom Austin (IBA Technical Advisor) to inspect it. If it's fabricated from steel or aluminum, we are basically going to be looking for adequate wall thickness (i.e., no flexing under thumb pressure); adequate looking welds that appear leak-free; a robust mounting system that appears to be sufficient to restrain the tank during an accident; a venting system that does not appear likely to expell liquid fuel onto the exhaust system when the bike is parked in the sun or tipped over; securely attached ports for fuel lines and vents; secure connections for all fuel and vent lines, and a securely mounted gas cap. If it's a system that contains a bladder, we will allow a somewhat flexible metal enclosure. If it's a fiberglass tank, we may do a lot of tugging on the fittings attached to it to make sure they are secure.

Before a list of approved tanks is posted for use by other rallies, there will probably be an amendment to the IBA rule language to delete the reference to the tanks being "certified". Proof that a custom tank will be "safe" requires far more comprehensive testing than is practical for the IBA to do. No Original Equipment Manufacturer would release a new fuel tank without destructive testing (e.g., deliberately crashing the bike with the tank attached). Obviously, The IBA can not do that. Our inspection of a custom tank is therefore limited to identifying obvious defects that we think make the tank unsafe.
 

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I totally get the desire to have more fuel range on a GS. What I don't get is why anyone would feel the need to plumb it in so that it can draw from the aux tank? Sure, if you're an iron butt rally contestant you might might want to limit your fuel stops but otherwise, why not just carry a fuel bladder or Rotopax that is your contingency supply available when needed. That way, if you can stop to refuel from the pump before needing the aux fuel then you only need to fill the tank as normal. If you need the aux fuel then stop, pour it in the tank, and motor on. In that case you only have to fiddle with the aux tank if you've used it and otherwise it's just there in case you need it.

There's been a few times when felt like I needed more range than I had in both cases it was not because I wanted to ride longer miles between stops but because of the availability of fuel. When I rode the entire Trans America Trail we carried extra gas as a back up in case we needed it. Sometimes there you're out a hundred miles from anywhere and a wrong turn could put you in a fuel emergency. The other time was riding to Alaska from California in April before some of the fuel stations were yet open for the season. In both of those scenarios we never resorted to the extra gas we brought along.

Personally, I can't imagine being on the bike on the go for more than about 200 miles at a time so a stop to put some more gas in the bike (from a pump or a aux source) is no factor.
 
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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Any time someone mention's an aux tank people come out of the woodwork with the same two standard responses:

1. My bladder isn't big enough and I'll have to stop before the fuel is exhausted
2. My rear end cannot sit in the saddle that long and I'd have to stop before the fuel is exhausted.

While adding fuel capacity does extend the range there is no rule or law stating you have to run the entire compliment of fuel from full to empty before you can stop or you have to add a full compliment of fuel when you stop. It just give you some flexibility. In fact having more fuel allows me to stop more often and where I want to stop. Since I do not have to base as many stops around gas stations. I can take that time I would have spent at a gas station time and spend it stopped at a scenic outlook or somewhere else. I've seen enough gas stations in my home state and abroad that I confident if I bypass a few of them I'll not miss much.

Rotopax, fuel bladders and things like MSR fuel bottles do hold extra fuel but they are not convenient to refill, store or dispense. I know ever time I have used any of the aforementioned I end up spilling gas on me and/or the bike. With a connected auxiliary tank I have a large opening to refill it and that is the last time I deal with it the fuel.

To each their own.
 

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I have the 3L from Touratech. When I plan a ride where my 300 Km range is not enough, I click the rack on my panniers and I'm good to go. That give an extra 60 Km, more if I drive conservatively.

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I have the 3L from Touratech. When I plan a ride where my 300 Km range is not enough, I click the rack on my panniers and I'm good to go. That give an extra 60 Km, more if I drive conservatively.

View attachment 31723
Yep any container that can hold gasoline adds range. Mine adds 230Km to the already 620 Km range. Once I get the cradle built for mine it will install/uninstall in about 15 seconds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Today I added some valving to the Aux tank setup. Since the fuel quick connects, I am using are positive shutoff when separated if I remove the Aux tank the main tank is not venter. With a simple 3-way valve I can now either allow fuel to flow from the aux tank or vent the main tank.

Vent1.jpg




Handle up the fuel can flow from the aux tank to the main tank and the system vent through the Aux tank vent.

Vent2.jpg





Move the valve handle down (yes it shown in the "up" position) and the main tank is vented, and the aux tank is blocked from flowing fuel.


Vent3.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Over the last couple of days, I've been working on the tank cradle. I used 1/4" aluminum plate I had (yes overkill but the price was right) reserved in the shed. A Diablo aluminum circular saw blade made easy work of raw cuts. Then dressed up the ends with a 1" belt sander.

Next were the rear mounting legs. I was going to use the two slots in the plastic deck that the pillion seat clips into but I needed the plate to extend past the rear rack to accommodate the length of the gas tank. This also created an elevation difference.

GC1.jpeg


So instead, I used the 2nd tube on the rear rack as the stay for the plate bracket to wrap around. 1/8" x 2 x 1-1/4" tab backset 5/8" to allow fitment over the 16mm tube of the GSA rear rack.

GC2.jpeg


I used 1/4 -20 bolts with 3/4" long steel spacers over the threads....Perfecto!

GC6.jpeg


Next the rear stop. More 1/4" plate (needs welded on) with rounded edges.

GC3.jpeg


Next hurdle was how to hold the tank down and centered. After some though I settled on 1" footman loops and a piece of nylon webbing. The trick was to allow some slack in the bolts so when tightened down it would draw the strap tight. Since the bottom of the tank is chamfered, I inset the footman loop to help center the tank.

GC4.jpeg


Tomorrow, I need to go and buy a 5/16" tap and then I can install the seat latch which is nothing more than a 5/16" bolt with acorn nut sanded down to fit the opening and allow the locking bar to hold it in place.

I also cut the plate to fit and be supported entirely by the GSA racks tubing so it was supported by the plastic under the rack.

GC7.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Another change mid-stream. Think about the rear stop instead of haing a foot welded in place I decided that I wanted to make this thing entirely weldless so anyone at home with some common hand tools could replicate or at least use as a springboard. So in lieu of the welded plate I decide to use 1/4 x 3" bolts with the heads cut off as stops. Since we are not holding back monumental forces these will work a treat


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Plate all assembled save for the strap (mom is sewing that for me today) and cleaned with aluminum brightener.

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Underside shot

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Clearer shot of the rear mounts

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Not sure if I'm going to leave it in the raw, clear coat it or spray it with bedliner.
 

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Will the threads on the long bolts create any wear issues on the tank? Maybe slide a piece of fuel hose over them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Will the threads on the long bolts create any wear issues on the tank? Maybe slide a piece of fuel hose over them?
Possibly but it easy to monitor. I also drilled and tapped an extra set of holes 1" from the existing posts so I can add another set to spread the load out if I sear a pattern of wear developed. The tubing is not a bad idea and will most likely add it just as a layer of protection Once i get the split ring hanger in place and the custom nylon strap I'll see if things wiggle and move and address from there.

This has been a fun project so far. Glad I finally decided to do it. Another good thing is if I make one more cut on the leftover piece of aluminum, I'll have another base plate ready to be drilled and tapped. Add a bit of hardware and it be ready to go to its forever home where the new owner can enjoy the extended range.
 

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My set up was done to pass IBR style rally technical inspections (needless to say this plastic strapped on tank will not - if that is a concern)

I used the main tank vent "hole" to plumb in the aux tank - there is a little rubber flapper valve in the red junction I removed and VERY carefully reamed the 1/8'ish hole in the top of the tank and in the red plastic junction. The vent line to the canister is simply plugged, the entire fuel system vents via the aux. tank. It works very well - the aux tank is drawn into the main tank "first" - then the main tank is used. My fuel gauge works with this set-up; shows a full tank as the Aux tank is used then counts down the main tank.

I built the aux tank brackets out of aluminum bar stock and incorporated an Alt Rider rear rack plate to hold the "rally case". I'm VERY happy with the set-up; the seal at the tank/red junction do-dad is sensitive (assemble dry/don't over tighten) but I've had no leaks. The Aux tank has a shut off valve, but it must remain open at all times (while running) to vent the fuel system.

If the aux tank is full, you can get a few fumes leaching out into the garage - I've learned to simply make sure I "land" at home with little or no fuel in the aux tank. The other thing with this set-up is to NOT overfill the main tank and spill fuel into the overflow canister - that will also give you undesirable fumes because the fuel cannot be drawn via the disconnected tank vent.


View attachment 31687 View attachment 31689
View attachment 31688
I could live with your setup. Do you have a materials and/or vendor listing for the equipment you would share?
 

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I could live with your setup. Do you have a materials and/or vendor listing for the equipment you would share?
Sure - the tank is a Sandstrom Tour-MC1016C 10x16 Center fill w/internal baffle and vent tube. (came with the black mounting straps) $220. (about 5 gal.)

The two aluminum main mounts are basic bar stock I got a local metal "superstore" - they are bolted into the subframe using the OEM captured nuts in the subframe. The bar stock is 3" wide to allow for the angle of the sub-frame and give enough material to bolt the tank mounts to. I used a pipe to make spacers to maintain the height required to fit the tank and hosing above the thin stainless cover plate I built to cover the electrics under the passenger seat. The Alt-Rider "plate" (which I had) really has nothing to do with the aux tank and is simply to tie the two main mount bars together and give me a place to mount a "rally case". To get the rally case to sit level I had to build a second (level) platform to bolt the case to and got lucky that the bolts to tighten the tank clamp sat at the proper height to mount the steel bar stock and bent things into place for the rally case.

The set-up has worked fantastic and is solid as can be.




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