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Discussion Starter #1
I`ve only had my R1200GS a few months but I was starting to dislike the the way it shifted. Let me explain if I can. When I would shift gears and throttle down right as I was pulling in the clutch the RPM would seem to really drop off fast and not come back up fast enough with the twist of the throttle, the shift would be really really jerky(surging). I hated it ! It`s the only bike I`v ever owned that does this. I attributed it to it being fuel injected ? Also anything low speed was terribly jerky(surging). If I was playing around doing low speed balancing maneuvers the bike would once again be really jerky(surging). It was starting to bother me to the point of wanting to possibly trade the bike for a KTM or anything that did`t act this way. A month ago a guy gave me a Booster Plug and I had it in my tool box, I was`t going to install it but I picked up a K&N filter and somewhere I read that if you use a K&N then also use a Booster Plug because of the added air flow. Well I did the install the other day and let me tell you what an incredible difference it has made in my bike. I love it ! It runs and shifts like butter. I can`t say enough about that Booster Plug. It completely changed my bike and I love riding it now...Just thought that if anyone was having the same issue as me that they might want to try what I did..These are my findings so yours may be different but I think if you`re having surging issues the Booster Plug is the trick !! Just a couple picks of my XR650R and R1200GS Thanks, AJ
 

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I hate you ! Only two days with it running so well and you blow my high..lol
I hear you...I have run BP's on 4 separate R1200's over the past 10 years. On my 2017 GSA it just didn't seem to help so I started doing some research and facts seem true that the ECU adapts over time. I returned my latest BP to seller for refund and went with Hilltop flash tune. Bike runs like a dream and no more flat spot in midrange.
 

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Just running the K&N will make a big difference, i fitted one to my rninet with stock exhaust and it revs alot more freely and seems to pull harder aswell. Had one on a f800s with a full remus system it turned a mild bike into a hooligan tool. Just ordered one for my gs as it has a full after market system on, and can not wait. One of the best tuning parts availble for the money.
 

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Just running the K&N will make a big difference, i fitted one to my rninet with stock exhaust and it revs alot more freely and seems to pull harder aswell. Had one on a f800s with a full remus system it turned a mild bike into a hooligan tool. Just ordered one for my gs as it has a full after market system on, and can not wait. One of the best tuning parts availble for the money.
Sorry but that is nonsense. I owned a 9T and there is no limitation with the current intake/filter. K&N is absolute [email protected] and all it does if let in copious amounts of dirt into you engine. Paper filters are better and as long as you change them regularly, they perform the same as cotton gauze filters. K&N is the biggest marketing BS!
 

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Booster Plug

The discussion about the ECU's ability to update its own basic fuel map (adaption) is a long term rumor that pops up once in a while.

But with the usual narrow band lambda sensor that every manufacturer is using, this is not possible at all. The narrow band sensor is very digital (on/off) in its behavior, so it's impossible to use the sensor information to update the fuel map. To do this you would need a wide band sensor, but this technology is certainly not for production bikes as they are fragile and expensive. I've been experimenting a lot with adaption and narrow band / wide band sensors, so I know in details how they works (and destroyed quite a few wide band sensors on the way……).

Think about it for a minute: If the lambda sensor was able to provide information that would allow the ECU to update it's own fuel map, it would override it's own temperature and air pressure input signals too, meaning that the manufactorer is just spending lots of money on useless sensors. Also it would override all kind of fuel remapping attempts: Power Commanders, BoosterPlug's, even the factory's own software updates. This is obviously not so.

The Lambda sensor is installed to correct the Air/Fuel Ratio error that comes from the production tolerance of sensors/ fuel pump/injectors, and the lambda sensor is necessary because the law demands that the Air/Fuel Ratio is kept borderline lean.
Tolerances of different components are being summed up, and if they all go in one direction, you will have a bike with really poor (lean) fueling and lots of stalling problems. If they all sum up in the opposite direction, you would have a bike that was running a little richer and you would have better running bike. This is why otherwise equal bikes are behaving differently, and the Lambda sensor is doing it's best to fix the problem, but can only do this in closed loop situations, not in open loop. This is where the BoosterPlug is a good fix.

The fact that similar bikes are not equally affected by the lean mixture requirements is another proof that there's no adaption taking place. If the theory was correct and the ECU was adapting itself, all bikes of the same type would end up with the same Air/Fuel Ratio over time. But a bike that is extremely lean from the factory does not correct it self, and a lucky owner of a bike that is running a tad richer than the rest will not see this advantage dissapear over time.

The Lambda sensor will provide a real time fuel correction when you are riding in closed loop conditions, but this is just a final adjustment to the fuel injection calculations - there's no fuel map updates being made so the BoosterPlug is not being cancelled out over time.

Sorry for the rather technical answer, but there was no other way I could explain this.

If you want even more information, this topic is also discussed and illustrated in my book on Motorcycle Fuel Injection that is free to download here: http://www.boosterplug.com/shop/cms-fuel_injection_book.html

We have sold over 25.000 units since we started the BoosterPlug company in 2009, and our customers are as happy with the BoosterPlug in year 2-3-4 as they we're on day one. And we have lots of returning customers purchasing their second or third BoosterPlug when they get a new bike. Fancy sales talk can usually fool a few people, but we would never have seen this massive support for our device if it stopped working after some time
 

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The discussion about the ECU's ability to update its own basic fuel map (adaption) is a long term rumor that pops up once in a while.

But with the usual narrow band lambda sensor that every manufacturer is using, this is not possible at all. The narrow band sensor is very digital (on/off) in its behavior, so it's impossible to use the sensor information to update the fuel map. To do this you would need a wide band sensor, but this technology is certainly not for production bikes as they are fragile and expensive. I've been experimenting a lot with adaption and narrow band / wide band sensors, so I know in details how they works (and destroyed quite a few wide band sensors on the way……).

Think about it for a minute: If the lambda sensor was able to provide information that would allow the ECU to update it's own fuel map, it would override it's own temperature and air pressure input signals too, meaning that the manufactorer is just spending lots of money on useless sensors. Also it would override all kind of fuel remapping attempts: Power Commanders, BoosterPlug's, even the factory's own software updates. This is obviously not so.

The Lambda sensor is installed to correct the Air/Fuel Ratio error that comes from the production tolerance of sensors/ fuel pump/injectors, and the lambda sensor is necessary because the law demands that the Air/Fuel Ratio is kept borderline lean.
Tolerances of different components are being summed up, and if they all go in one direction, you will have a bike with really poor (lean) fueling and lots of stalling problems. If they all sum up in the opposite direction, you would have a bike that was running a little richer and you would have better running bike. This is why otherwise equal bikes are behaving differently, and the Lambda sensor is doing it's best to fix the problem, but can only do this in closed loop situations, not in open loop. This is where the BoosterPlug is a good fix.

The fact that similar bikes are not equally affected by the lean mixture requirements is another proof that there's no adaption taking place. If the theory was correct and the ECU was adapting itself, all bikes of the same type would end up with the same Air/Fuel Ratio over time. But a bike that is extremely lean from the factory does not correct it self, and a lucky owner of a bike that is running a tad richer than the rest will not see this advantage dissapear over time.

The Lambda sensor will provide a real time fuel correction when you are riding in closed loop conditions, but this is just a final adjustment to the fuel injection calculations - there's no fuel map updates being made so the BoosterPlug is not being cancelled out over time.

Sorry for the rather technical answer, but there was no other way I could explain this.

If you want even more information, this topic is also discussed and illustrated in my book on Motorcycle Fuel Injection that is free to download here: http://www.boosterplug.com/shop/cms-fuel_injection_book.html

We have sold over 25.000 units since we started the BoosterPlug company in 2009, and our customers are as happy with the BoosterPlug in year 2-3-4 as they we're on day one. And we have lots of returning customers purchasing their second or third BoosterPlug when they get a new bike. Fancy sales talk can usually fool a few people, but we would never have seen this massive support for our device if it stopped working after some time

Except independent tests have proved this WRONG! It is not updating its own map, but it is able to determine that too much fuel is being added based on long term lambda readings. I was fooled too, but it simply doesn't work long-term (2000km+)...I drank the CoolAid, no more :)

Thats the same email Jens from BP sent me. I think he truly believes it, but unfortunately tests have shown the ECU corrects the incorrect fueling based on long term fuel trim. See my earlier post for proof.
 

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Road runner you seem to be up your arse. Every one has there own opinion. I still have my rninet i know the k&n has made a difference. You need to check your attitude at the door, and stop being disrespectful of other people's opinions.
 

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Road runner you seem to be up your arse. Every one has there own opinion. I still have my rninet i know the k&n has made a difference. You need to check your attitude at the door, and stop being disrespectful of other people's opinions.
Having an opinion doesn't mean you're correct. His comments are pretty much mirrored elsewhere.

You made 2 posts on this forum total and your second one brow beating some one?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Testing !

Here`s what I can say to all of you. I`ll be doing a long/ or shot term test if it does`t work very long and give you all feedback. As of now I`m very happy with it but time will tell. I do thank everyone for their response to this post so far positive or negative...
 

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Except independent tests have proved this WRONG
Wrong? I'd say the tests were inconclusive. Why? From my own experience on my '05 GS.

I tried a product called the Accelerator which was very similar to the booster plug but without the temperature sensor. It is my believe (based upon actual measurements) that once the bike is moving the temperature gradients within the area of the engine aren't enough to make a difference. Anyway...

On my '05 adding the Accelerator smoothed out low RPM throttle response. The bike became easy to control down to about 2300-2400 RPM. Prior to adding the plug the bike started bucking at about 2700-2800 RPM. The key here is that 60 thousand miles later the bike was still OK down to 2300-2400 RPM. And if the device was disconnected the low RPM limit for a smooth ride returned to 2700-2800 RPM.

Take away: In 60K miles my bike didn't learn anything with respect to counteracting the device.

I know, anecdote does not equal data. I only have the experience of using one particular device on one particular bike. However, it worked.

My '13 was good enough off the factory floor that I felt no need to make any changes. The bike is still stock.
 

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Wrong? I'd say the tests were inconclusive. Why? From my own experience on my '05 GS.

I tried a product called the Accelerator which was very similar to the booster plug but without the temperature sensor. It is my believe (based upon actual measurements) that once the bike is moving the temperature gradients within the area of the engine aren't enough to make a difference. Anyway...

On my '05 adding the Accelerator smoothed out low RPM throttle response. The bike became easy to control down to about 2300-2400 RPM. Prior to adding the plug the bike started bucking at about 2700-2800 RPM. The key here is that 60 thousand miles later the bike was still OK down to 2300-2400 RPM. And if the device was disconnected the low RPM limit for a smooth ride returned to 2700-2800 RPM.

Take away: In 60K miles my bike didn't learn anything with respect to counteracting the device.

I know, anecdote does not equal data. I only have the experience of using one particular device on one particular bike. However, it worked.

My '13 was good enough off the factory floor that I felt no need to make any changes. The bike is still stock.
Don't underestimate the placebo effect we all get.

As I said I also bought the BoosterPlug story...4 times in 10 years. Now after gaining a better understanding of the Motronic/Bosch units and seeing logs of AFR's adaptions over long term, I realise the devices such as BP etc are flawed. The only device that will work long term is the AF-Xied or a flash tune. I have also sought advice from 2 race bike tuners who specialise in BMW tuning... they both said the ECU will self-correct over time and that while a narrow band lambda can't make short term adjustments because it isn't as accurate as wide-band, the data it gathers over the long-term is accurate.

All my bikes have catless exhaust systems and I can't take a risk of a using a device that 'might' work. I need confidence in knowing my engine isn't running lean.

Why spend $250 on BP that has 'inconclusive' findings? Rather spend $350 on the AF-Xied which does work or a flash.
 

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Road runner you seem to be up your arse. Every one has there own opinion. I still have my rninet i know the k&n has made a difference. You need to check your attitude at the door, and stop being disrespectful of other people's opinions.
K&N will lean out your AFR's and an already factory lean bike will actually run worse. Many people 'feel' the engine runs better due to the increase in induction sound, exhaust pops (lean), but that's all it is.
 

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Don't underestimate the placebo effect we all get.
Placebo? I don't think the placebo effect works on inanimate objects.

Actual measurements on my '05 GS:

* Installing the accelerator reduced usable low RPM by about 300 RPM.
* 60K miles later the usable low RPM was still about 300 RPM below the stock value.
* Removing the module at that time returned the usable low RPM to the stock value.

If the bike adapted to the module I'd have expected the low RPM limit to increase over time. That did not happen. Again, that is one device on one bike. Maybe my bike was broke with respect to adaptability.

Edit: regarding low useable RPM. My "test" was low speed 2nd gear with a very light throttle. Stock the bike would start to buck at about 2700 RPM. With the module the bike would start to buck at about 2400 RPM.
 

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Placebo? I don't think the placebo effect works on inanimate objects.

Actual measurements on my '05 GS:

* Installing the accelerator reduced usable low RPM by about 300 RPM.
* 60K miles later the usable low RPM was still about 300 RPM below the stock value.
* Removing the module at that time returned the usable low RPM to the stock value.

If the bike adapted to the module I'd have expected the low RPM limit to increase over time. That did not happen. Again, that is one device on one bike. Maybe my bike was broke with respect to adaptability.

Edit: regarding low useable RPM. My "test" was low speed 2nd gear with a very light throttle. Stock the bike would start to buck at about 2700 RPM. With the module the bike would start to buck at about 2400 RPM.
Ok. Good it "works" for you then.

FYI, if you did logging of AFR's with GS-911 you will see it doesn't in the long term. Been proven....conclusively.
 

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K&N will lean out your AFR's and an already factory lean bike will actually run worse. Many people 'feel' the engine runs better due to the increase in induction sound, exhaust pops (lean), but that's all it is.
Not to mention that filter changes are usually done when it has to be done, so comparing a new KN vs a used/clogged paper filter seems dubious to me. A bit like changing suspension, the new one always seems massively better, so people tend to start thinking that the originals are bad. And I guess the same can be said about tyres... But I digress.

Interesting topic, albeit controversial. Personally I have no clue about how this works, coming from an old carburetor machine. And I'm even a little surprised, I thought leaner machines worked better? Possibly because I'm extrapolating from 2 stroke engines, where "lean" burns less oil (and does indeed run better). So with the LC, does any ajustment on the air intake or exhaust need reprogramming, or is the whole point that the ECU will adapt?
 

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Not to mention that filter changes are usually done when it has to be done, so comparing a new KN vs a used/clogged paper filter seems dubious to me. A bit like changing suspension, the new one always seems massively better, so people tend to start thinking that the originals are bad. And I guess the same can be said about tyres... But I digress.

Interesting topic, albeit controversial. Personally I have no clue about how this works, coming from an old carburetor machine. And I'm even a little surprised, I thought leaner machines worked better? Possibly because I'm extrapolating from 2 stroke engines, where "lean" burns less oil (and does indeed run better). So with the LC, does any ajustment on the air intake or exhaust need reprogramming, or is the whole point that the ECU will adapt?
In our green world, manufacturers are forced to make engines use as little fuel as possible. If they weren't bound by environmental legislation the engineers would certainly opt for a better AFR to release optimal power, torque and throttle response. This is why we see that aftermarket tuners are able to easily get these advantages by altering the fueling tables. The sad thing is that tuned engines typically are more fuel efficient as the rider uses less throttle to achieve the desired performance.

Adding high flow filters (more air) and removing the cat from the exhausts (exhaust gas exits more quickly) makes the engine run even leaner. This will cause the engine to produce less power, worse throttle response, possible detonation/ping, burnt exhaust valves. From factory, the engine's AFR's are at the absolute limit of the safe area, so adding intake/exhaust mods typically exceeds these.
 

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Ok. Good it "works" for you then.

FYI, if you did logging of AFR's with GS-911 you will see it doesn't in the long term. Been proven....conclusively.
And my additional 300 RPM on the low end was also proven. The results were observable and repeatable.
 
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