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Droning Noise - Tires/Tunnel/Engine/Howl

15K views 41 replies 14 participants last post by  Peterashleyclark 
#1 ·
I've been chasing a noise on my 2017 R1200GS that has bothered me since I bought this bike. With Anakee III's it sounded like a failed turbo bearing. My initial thought was that is was due to the tires. It turns out that it can be induced by various sources (tires, road, engine, engine, wind). The big noise maker was resonating spokes.

The notes below are an edited copy of my reply to another post, which explains what I found and what I did about it:

I found that my spokes resonate at certain speeds - especially bad with Anakee III's, but also happened with Mission and Mutant tires. Given the same sound from three very different tires, I figured that something odd was going on and focused on the spokes. If you tap them, you can hear that they ring very easily when you tap them. I put tiny O-rings between the crossed spokes to absorb some of spoke vibration. When tapped, the spokes ring less. When riding, the howling, resonating sound is essentially gone (at least with the Mutant tires I'm running now). This is a simple fix for a horrible noise. I'm using McMaster O-rings that cost less than $5 per 100 rings (McMaster-Carr). You only need 20 per wheel, and can press them in place without tools. I haven't lost any, but I imagine they could fly off in mud or rain... We'll see when I get more miles on them. At least they are inexpensive. I'll also be curious to see if anyone notices them.

Note that you cold use other things to damp the vibration, including small tie-wraps or safety wire. The O-rings were easy to try and prove effective on my bike. These other choices might not absorb energy the same way (though may be more permanent). I would be careful not to clamp the spokes together, as they are meant to be slightly apart.

Of course, please check your spoke tension regularly. Even though there are grub screws to keep the from loosening, they can still become loose. Truing these wheels is a real art, so be careful out there!

Spokes.jpg


FWIW - Cleaning wheels is not my first priority...
 
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#2 ·
Thanks for the idea, I've experienced howling on A3s and Missions, thought it was the tires wearing. I guess one question I'd ask would be: has anyone with cast wheels experience the same noise? If so, it can't be spokes.
 
#3 ·
I asked that on another forum. Most of the people who responded with “tire” noise had spoked wheels. Also note, I now hear tread noise, but I don’t find it objectionable (it was masked by the spoke resonance before the fix). The noise that reduces is the howl that doesn’t change pitch at different speeds.

Tire wear affects the frequency and amplitude of the vibration tires make, which would change when, and how loudly the spokes resonate. My A3’s induced howl over a wide range of speeds. I think this is due to the variable tread pitch used by Michelin (which was (ironically) intended to reduce tire noise. I’m looking for someone that currently uses A3’s to test this theory (I’m on Mutants right now).
 
#4 ·
I have cast wheels on my 6 months old 1250GS and Anakee tires. The noise from the front is horrible, just as explained here. I don't want to change my tires yet as they still have a lot of life left but when time comes to change, I'll use Road 5 in hope for less noise.
 
#6 ·
As I said, I have Anakee tires. The sound is like WHOOOOOOMMMM and it changes the frequency as the speed goes up. It's there from 20mph (more or less) and as speed increases it gets louder.
I used Pilot Road 4 on 3 of my previous bikes and they were excellent and quit. I hope Road 5 will be as quit on GS.
 
#38 ·
I understand that you have cast wheels, but your description of the sound with Anakees is different from my experience with spoke wheels. With spoke wheels, prior to the o-rings, the sound is loud and does not change pitch with speed. With the o-rings, it’squieter, and the sound is simpler tread noise, which does change pitch with speed.

Something to note about the cast wheels - without tires they ring like a bell. I’m expecting some level of sympathetic sound, just different than with spokes. After I test the same tires on both, I plan to run quiet street tires on the cast wheels and something more aggressive on the spoke wheels.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Project update: the 1/8 thick o-rings linked above work, but not as well as the first o-rings I tried (3/32 thick, 1/8 ID. The link to the smaller o-ring is McMaster-Carr

I will continue to look for good solutions and especially, watch for any other ideas for quieting the spokes. In the meantime, these smaller o-rings have made the most improvement.
 
#12 ·
Yes, zip-ties, tape, and other things can work to cut the vibration. I ordered some little zip-ties to try, but I don't know if they will provide much damping. It might only make the pairs of spokes ring together... I'm also looking into using self-fusing silicone tape or rubber disks (maybe using zip ties to keep them in place). I may try the zip-ties with o-rings, as well. Blue E.A.R. damping material might be perfect. I've also considered putting silicone sealant into the spoke holes at the rim. I'll be interested to see if anyone else tries these things!
 
#13 ·
In my experience, having owned three 1200 GS's, Anakie III's are very noisy. My experience particularly relates to the front tyre giving off an increasing "roaring" noise related to speed. I now run Pilot Road 5's on both front and rear and the noise is gone, the PR5 are better in the wet than the Anakie III and wear equally as well.
 
#14 ·
The tread roar, rising and falling with speed is expected, and will also be there with knobbies. I’m working on a sympathetic ringing of the spoke, which adds to the tread noise and does not change pitch with speed. I have only heard it with spoked wheels, and have reduced it with damping of the spokes. Anakee III’s and knobbies likely excite this sympathetic vibration more than street tires, so it can be difficult to identify the various contributions.
Adding damping to my spokes dramatically improved my bike’s noise signature, but may not be enough to noticeably improve bikes with A3’s or knobbies. I’m hoping to test that.

I’m also looking for alternative solutions. Adding tie-wraps to my wheels (with o-rings) did not help significantly, so I’m looking at other ideas that might work for all tires.again, I’m not expecting to affect tread noise, but I am removing a piercing sound that I have heard on all spoked r1200gs’s I’ve tried.
My newest idea is to add constrained layer damping to the spokes (small patches of aluminum tape, or maybe wire labels tape). I’m open to any ideas you all can share.
 
#16 ·
One thing to check is how true your rim is. And just as a note dont try straighten the rim yourself unless you are 100% sure you know what you are doing. My front rimm is buckled a bit and I tried to straighten it and f'ed it up proper. I actually need to replace the rim but its extremely expensive and looking around for second hand one. That might cause the excessive noise from the front also listen when you ride on different tar surfaces on mine I pick up the smoother the surface the less the noise sometimes it actually is totally gone at around 110km/h and at 60-80km/h its unbearable.
 
#17 ·
Ok, I’ve been using small zip-ties around the spoke crossing, with the o-rings still in place. I still hear some of the sound, so not better than the small o-rings. My next test will be small o-rings with self-fusing silicone tape wrapped around. I’ll try a few different wraps to see if I can ID the best method. This will be a bit tedious, so I hope it works great.
The good news is that every method I’ve tried is much better than letting the spokes sing. Is anyone else trying this???
 
#19 ·
In my case (spokes), I hear tread noise and spokes. You may be hearing tread noise. Tread noise will rise and fall in pitch as you change speed. The spoke sound rises and fall in sound level, but the pitch, and character of the sound don’t change. I tried three different tires on my bike and had the same spoke sound (very different tread and construction). With my modifications, I hear the tread noise more cleanly, which is far more livable than hearing both sounds. It’s also worth noting that there is another resonant aspect to tires - the air volume within the tire. Honda has patented a sound absorber that goes inside the tire to combat this source of sympathetic vibration. I don’t think it’s available yet.
 
#20 ·
I should add that I have ridden, briefly, cast wheels on a GS and did not notice the same effect (though I heard tread noise). I don't know if there are audible resonances in the cast wheels. You could tap on the cast spokes to see if this may be true... If the cast wheels resonate, it would be very difficult mitigate safely.
 
#21 ·
I've always noticed the front tire sound is "funneled" directly up through the tunnel in the body work. I've though that if I stuffed some foam rubber or such around the front forks it would block the sound from reaching the rider. The older BMW RT models had rubber boots that sealed the fork opening between the front tire and the fairing. Something like this would stop a lot of the sound transmission.
 
#22 ·
I removed the tie-wraps today - tire sounds are great again! O-rings rule! I also confirmed that you can test your wheels easily. I removed all o-rings and hit my tire with a screwdriver handle. Without the o-rings, the spokes ring clearly. With the o-rings, they are much quieter. The measured sound level of spokes was reduced 12db. That’s is a reduction in acoustic power of ~15x. I have more o-rings if anyone local want to try it.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Watching "Long Way Down" and in episode one or two, Ewan is shown putting zip locks around the crossed spokes. I think he says something about it being recommended by BMW, but doesn't elaborate as to why...

I have both cast and spoked wheels for my 07 GS. I have Heidenau Scouts on both front wheels. I get a pronounced HOWL (scream!) at 90 to 120+ km/h but only on some tarmac surfaces. Frequency does not seem to change with speed, but volume does. I haven't figured out which surfaces trigger it. It can be extremely loud on one road, turn the corner and nothing. It is consistent in that the next day I get the same result.
Given the Heidenaus are a common element, I have assumed they're the culprit. I am looking for some 90-10's to mount on the cast wheels for use on-road. I'm hoping the switch resolves the howl.
 
#24 ·
people often tie spokes together in case they break. It keeps the broken spokes from getting caught inothe things, like brake calipers…. That’s probably why they did it.

Do you get the same sound out of both front tires? Or is there.difference between cast and spoked wheels? Tires have resonant behavior,that might be triggered by that particular road. If it’s only heard with the spoke wheels, I would try the o-rings. If you were looking for road-only tires, I would recommend Michelin Road 5 Trails, based on lots of favorable reviews. I wanted more trail capability, so I’m running Dunlop Mutants. They are great on road (wet or dry), and good on dry trails. They don’t seem tough enough for sharp rocky trails, though. They make a little noise at 40-50 mph, but it’s not objectionable (as long I have the o-rings in the spokes). Without the o-rings, I can’t stand it…. I had the same awful sound with Anakee III’s (worst) and Dunlop Missions (got worse with age. I’m sure the o-rings would make theMissions work well. I’m not sure how much it would help the Anakees…
 
#25 ·
I get the noise from essentially the same tire (Heidenau Scout, each with about 40 to 50% wear) - one on a cast wheel, the other on a spoked wheel. From that I'm guessing it's the tires and not the wheels. Note too that the wheels have their own bearings and brake rotors, so that should eliminate those components as possible sources.

I'm not trying to bad mouth the Heidenaus. Overall they seem good on & off road. I'm just relating that I have essentially the same howling with the cast and the spoked wheel.

Good point about the zip-locks and broken spokes. Thanks.

.
 
#27 ·
Greetings all, I picked up this thread and found a "cockpit cover" from Wunderlich-America. They are on backorder but submitted my order to get on the list to receive one. When I get it installed I will update this thread. Here is the link to Wunderlich-


I also installed the o-rings that IntoGS discussed and I also cut out a piece of 1" foam that fits into the tunnel and has channels for the forks to travel. On my next ride, I will get everyone an update to these mods.

Talk to ya soon!!
 
#28 ·
No cockpit cover will help that much on the noise metter. In my case, Michelin Road 6 tires solved the problem completely. My bike is 2021 GS and came from the factory with Michelin Anakee's. So, in my case, the noise was 100% coming from the front tire pattern.
Solved for good now.
 
#29 ·
Bosnjo: It's clear that the wheels will be quieter when using street tires that don't make their own noise, or excite the spokes, but some people want a more aggressive tread for dual-sporting. My Dunlop Mutants are much quieter than the Anakee III or even the Dunlop Mission. I do, however, hear different noise levels when traveling on some rougher paved roads. I'm curious if you ever get noise on rough pavement with the Road 6.

I did finally get a set of cast alloy wheels to compare. One of them needs a bit of cosmetic work before I put shoes on. My plan is to run the same Dunlop Missions, to compare if wheels make as much difference as I expect. Ultimately, I plan to run street tires on the cast wheels, and something dirt friendly on the spokes (with the expected noise...).

I also look forward to see if Scrappd has good results with o-rings. Is there a difference when you tap the spokes with a screwdriver handle? This test showed a dramatic difference on my bike.
 
#31 ·
The verdict is in and the o-rings and the Wunderlich cockpit cover did has some dampening of the road noise, but the Anakee Wild's just make so much noise. It's fairly quiet up until around 40-45 when the howl of the tires start to kick in. At first I went to the local high school parking lot to review some of the riding techniques I learned from the BMW Rider Academy class I took last week. After that I took the bike up on the highway and stretched her legs a bit. I pulled over and put in my Alpine MotoSafe ear plugs for the rest of the ride because of the howl of the tires.

Good luck everyone!
 
#32 ·
Glad to hear it helped a bit, but knobby tires are a tough challenge. I'm cleaning up the cast wheels I got for street tires. I hope to get them installed in the next couple weeks. I expect that to be a quiet combination for long trips and regular commuting. It will be pain to change wheels for different trips, but way easier than changing tires.
 
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