GSA - No Knobbies and take off the panniers

Brudenride said:

The muffler is covered with the rack that holds the pannier doesn't that provide protection?

I don't see how a pannier can cover a final drive unless it's mounted so low that you'd be hitting rocks riding. How often are final drives damaged in crashes, must be a pretty hard and fast crash to do so, and how often do panniers protect it from happening? That would have to be one hell of a crash to damage that final drive I would think. but perhaps I am wrong?

There's always an exception but to make a rule or decisions on exceptions becomes onerous and expensive and creates diminishing returns.

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On the standard GS, there are no pannier racks with the Vario cases. The pannier racks come with the GSA or if added to a standard GS. With the side cases/panniers attached. If you were to draw a line from the bottom edge of the side case/pannier to the rear wheel, the final drive does not appear to touch the ground. With out the side cases/panniers attached, it appears that the final drive will touch the ground. In this scenario, the muffler and final drive would be protected in a relatively a low speed "dropping" or low side slide out. The damage to the final drive would probably be cosmetic only (e.g. scratches, gouges) and would most likely functional properly. I'd rather keep things looking as nice as possible.

That being said, bikes do ride differently without the side cases/panniers and seem a bit lighter. Granted I don't need them, but, I prefer to ride with them. That's a personal preference, and is not any better or worse than riding without them.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of knobby tires either. But, I realize that some people like to take their GS's to the extreme. That's not me. Having knobby tires to ride to the local coffee shop seems a bit overkill to me, but to each their own.

Brudenride said:

The impetus of the post was start a discussion and get people thinking

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Mission accomplished.

Brudenride said:

about HOW GOOD THE GS actually is when unencumbered of knobbies and two windsails (panniers).

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Ah yes, but no slouch with knobbies and panniers too!

Brudenride said:

Why ride knobbies for the 1% you are gonna actually need them?

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That 1% could be when you do need them. Kinda like a fire extinguisher at home, pocket knife on your person or a tool kit on the bike.

Brudenride said:

1. Knobbies aren't good on pavement, I don't think anyone can argue that. Trailmax, Motoz GPS,TKC 70, Mitas E07, etc. are WAY better than any knobbies on the road and provide surprisingly good traction off.

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It all depends on how hard you push a knobby on pavement (and a non-knobby off pavement). I ordered my current E09 front sight unseen on clearance and was surprised at how aggressive it was. The real surprise? The thing iswhen pushing it on the street! Any knobby smooths out at highway speed, you do need to know the limits on pushing them in corners.

Brudenride said:

3. The panniers don't do any harm in the garage, while on the open road they are windsails that decreases the overall the performance of the bike and, depending on perspective, the fun factor.

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Pannier wind effect is really only a deal above 50-60mph, not sure any fun is diminished.

Brudenride said:

4. Negatives of Knobbies vs 50/50 tires. Knobbies have poor wet traction, increased vibrations especially on long distance rides, increased road noise, poor on road handling characteristics, and seldom last very long, and the cost to replace is high so poor value to mileage. A 50/50 may make one slow down or have difficulty riding the 1% of terrain.

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I think you are being over dramatic. What knobbies have you ridden on? I’ve run TKC80, AX41, Scorpion Rally and E09. I never felt unsafe on pavement. Definitely not smooth below 55mph but above that wind and bike noise cancel it out.

I do generally get what you are saying though, I just sold my extra set of wheels with 90/10 Trailsmarts. Very smooth and very capable when pushed on the street. But squirrely on gravel, high pucker factor on loose gravel.

Brudenride said:

BTW, I have a GIVI tank lock bag that is super easy to remove and take with me and hold a lot. I also keep a dry bag on the back held with Rps if I stop and need storage.

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I HATE tank bags, even took the crossbar off my handlebars because I don’t like the obstructed view. But if works for you a-ok, no judgment. If I had a long tour, I’d probably use one.

Krons, thanks for having an actual discussion. I can't tell you all the tires I've ridden, I've been "adventure" riding big bikes for the last 20+ years and I'm sure some aren't even made anymore. I can tell you I really like the Mitas E10's these days and they are great on the pavement, one of the few I've really enjoyed on the road. I've ridden on several Motoz, and the Adventure and Rallz really howl on pavement (even stopped to check the bike after installing the Rallz it was so loud), the Tractionator GPS is really good for most riding (not wet though), rear reversed of course. Their mountain hybrid is a great tire for smaller bikes. TKC 80 is a solid tire but don't last long and I think a bit over rated. This is "spirited" riding on small mountain roads BTW.

You make a good point, there are some good knobbies on pavement out there, I'll take back my statement especially based on the E10's which I'll ride aggressively on the road on my Norden but they won't last half as long as good 50/50 ish tires. I tend to ride high miles so most of my riding has been on 50/50 tires hence the bias toward them and when I go off road I try to keep lots of momentum on the "tough stuff". But 90/10 tires, not a fan, although I've ridden my RT on lots of gravel roads but it's not fun at all and it keeps the speed way down. HA, re: Tank bags, that killed me . Sometimes I lean on mine on longer rides, but yes, it's kinda a wasted space that gets cluttered up but nice to keep gloves, water, cleaner, glasses, and maybe a radar detector (map area) in. You know the stuff DBA keeps in his panniers, KIDDING, easy Francis.... Good stuff Krons, thanks.

DBA, I love learning about quantum mechanics but if you think one needs a physics degree to understand how big square panniers effect riding at speed then I can't help you. Lots of miles in lots of weather will provide that education. I can't tell you how much either but I can tell you the greater the speed the worse it becomes, throw in strong winds and semi's on a two laner and it gets tricky quick. My old Tiger with loaded Touratech AL panniers would dance around at 90-110 mph, over 110 it became frightening.

Jeff, thanks for the solid comments. Sometimes I leave my panniers on after a long trip for a bit, depends on where and what I plan on riding.

Perrazi, 20 ish years ago I had a Tiger that I called my GS Hunter. A few GS's I ran down ended up giving a real run for my money, I couldn't or didn't want to keep the pace. One guy died after he pulled away from me on a Mesa in SW Colorado during an Iron Butt Rally. That sucked and I stopped doing those afterwards. There is always someone faster and willing to take more risk. I've come up on several bad accidents and heard many stories of such. Not worth it, almost died on my racer buddies GXSR1100, scared the .... out of me.

Redcard. Got a nice Pro-sumer espresso machine, never drank coffee until 43. I stop at shops when on trips although it's burning daylight; a guy once told me "you sure don't like to stop and smell the roses". I don't stop and critique bikes, as I said, I don't care what you ride just that you ride and love exchanging good ride stories, just not during a ride. A buddy of mine, Nico, is riding from CO to Argentina on a Versys 300, and another, Russo, has done from Urshia to AK and 33 States on a Vespa. Big respect to them. Was in Nova Scotia last July and my "spaceman suit" got several comments and started one nice conversation which started out like an insult. grin and bear it, eh?

I keep my panniers on. I agree with the opinion of the poster above in that they are wasted sitting in the garage. Besides, my garage is already a cluttered mess.

I love the storage. I can keep my bike cover, first aid kit, a couple cones for the random practice, and my chain lock. I keep those in the top center case. And that case stays locked. Then, the right (non exhaust side) pannier fits a half case of bottled beer nicely and a few other groceries if I am tasked to stop on the way home. My use of the left pannier is limited because it runs a bit warmer next to the exhaust. The bike is also much easier to pick up with the panniers on. Ask me how I know.

BUT...what I do really like is the increase in visibility they give me. If that extra size saves me from just one inattentive jackass, then its all worth it.

By the way, what is this thing for? (Top pannier, back of bike)

Funny. I bought my used 2016 GSA last fall and it came with a rack, top case, no side cases, and two sets of tires. The PO had knobbies on it. But he bought a brand new GSA and had the brand new factory tires removed and put something else on (presumably knobbies?). I found dust under the seat and around the battery and such indicating some prior off pavement use. The dealer included the removed OEM tires from the 2022 GSA with my purchase.

I immediately thought about (just me - not what any other GS/GSA owner should do) which tires should I run and if I should buy side cases. Years ago I had a 2005 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 and I got the factory plastic Kappa three piece set and the factory rack to hold them negotiated in with the new purchase price (about $8k new cash, BTW). I really enjoyed it and I only ran the top case most of the time, saving the side cases for trips to the NC mountains. I found it was easier to park the bike in the designated MC spot at work with other bikes without the side cases. I did envy the durability of the metal cases on the GS/GSAs I saw though as I was always one drop away from having to buy new ones. In fact, when I went to the mountains I rode to the spot, checked in, and promptly removed the side cases and left them in my room or tent then hit gravel/dirt fire roads without them the rest of the trip.

But I'm not in a position to take long trips on my GSA right now - I do day trips with the older guys in my church riding group - they have all different kinds of bikes, mostly heavy cruisers.

For me, the very aggressive knobbies and the vibration at medium speeds on the road did not work (aggravated my rheumatoid arthritis in my hands). They have been properly stored on a tire rack in a climate controlled garage since I had them removed seven months ago if anyone in the Charlotte, NC area wants them let me know (eventually I'll probably put them on craigslist).

Funny I saw the comments about the Aerostitch suites - and the rain suites in the side cases. I've got the yellow Aerostich - its kinda ugly. I won't be attracting any women in that. And I get stares every time my group stops for lunch - we got to biker lunch spots with great barbeque in the Carolinas and I'm generally the only one on a BMW (sometimes out of 50-100 riders) and certainly the only one not in black leather and jeans. But boy! can people SEE me. And in my area with soccer moms looking down at their cell phones all the time being seen is important.

But I don't think I'm going to buy the bad ass side cases I wanted so badly back when I had my V-strom. If I go on a trip to the NC mountains I plan to do something I made fun of others doing just 10-15 years ago - I'll toss the GSA in my pickup truck. The traffic and inattentiveness of drivers in the area I have to ride through from South Charlotte to get to the mountains has gotten progressively worse. As a widower single dad I practically gave up riding for six or seven years. The older guys I ride with during the day during the week understand why I have to ride for my mental health - and they don't make fun of my ridiculous looking yellow suit - they encourage me to wear it until my sons are grown and out of college. The big plus relevant to this discussion is I don't need to carry a separate rain suit or a side case to put it in. I mounted a tube to my left rack to hold a roll up tool case. I've got my patch kit in a little Givi under the rack case. My silly suit has pockets for everything else. In fact, I only use the top case to hold my helmet when I stop.

So I think the discussion was super fun to read while drinking my morning coffee (brewed at home in my relatively new Kurig - used to use a Mr. Coffee but I'm cutting back so making just one cup seems ok now) and hanging out with my dog.

On a related note: I used to leave my roof rack on my car 100% of the time so I could toss my (and later my and my son's) mountain bikes on it and hit the trails anytime - even though there was a little more wind noise and a 1.5-2mpg penalty. So I get leaving something something on a vehicle in case you need it - and so you have more garage space.

Honestly, as a non-SUV sport-wagon owner, I'd be very interested in a parallel thread on a car enthusiast site talking about how 99% of SUV owners are "posers" who never go off road and complain about the new traffic circles in the area (as that was probably the first time they tried to negotiate a sharp curve at speed and realized it handled like crap and blamed the circle, not the SUV) instead of buying a much more suited for the purpose hatchback or wagon. But I digress...

In tires everything is a compromise.

I spend most of my time off blacktop but more miles on asphalt. I very rarely take day trips. My short trips are 3 days, my longer trips are up to 16 days. Two examples, I followed Lewis and Clark's trail from St. Louis to the Oregon Coast (I put on new TKC 80 before leaving and had to replace a rear in order to get home) and last year the Pony Express from St. Joseph, MO to Sacramento. Both trips going west the greatest majority of my time was off blacktop. The trip home was mostly on pavement.



For my riding, I would like the best knobby tire for the worst situation because I'm in that situation all too often. However, when I ride knobbies I rarely get over 3000 miles on a rear. My compromise, for the last 2 years I have been using a Trailmax Mission for the rear and a knobby for the front. The Trailmax gives me very good wear and surprisingly good traction even in the worse conditions. For the front I prefer a TKC80 (although there is a directional arrow the tires are non directional so I'll flip them to get additional miles). The front give me the traction I need to stay on a line. Before using the Trailmax Mission my rear tire of choice was the TKC70Rocks. I rode that combo on the Smokey Mountain 500 and it worked well in all situations but I get more miles on the Trailmax.

These two combo works for me based on my riding style and what kind of rides I like to take. I'm not presumptuous enough to tell strangers what tires to use only what works for me based upon my riding.