I make my latte with an espresso machine at home. So I don't have to stop at Starbucks and critique all the bikes. I just keep riding.
I've told the story before was riding with some friends from TN on our way to GA. On Warwoman road it started raining hard, Buddy Justin was hauling his GF on an F800GS with well-worn TKC80 and panniers loaded with both their stuff for a long weekend. Another buddy of mine a ex road racer tried to keep up and couldn't. I mean Justin and a few of the others walked away from us like we were standing still. And they did it with confidence and as casual a if it were an sunny 80 degree day.The impetus of the post was start a discussion and get people thinking about HOW GOOD THE GS actually is when unencumbered of knobbies and two windsails (panniers). Why ride knobbies for the 1% you are gonna actually need them?
Please don't twist my words that I am disparaging anyone. I put poser in quotes, it's a real stereotype out there. I don't think anyone here can deny a certain perception persists about GS riders. I've met many interesting and widely divergent GS riders, so in reality GS riders are a super wide spectrum of people.
1. Knobbies aren't good on pavement, I don't think anyone can argue that. Trailmax, Motoz GPS,TKC 70, Mitas E07, etc. are WAY better than any knobbies on the road and provide surprisingly good traction off. How much miles on pavement do you ride vs dirt/gravel? I doubt most ride more than 90% paved/10% dirt. So why run a 30/70, or 20/80 tire? Most 50/50 do the job extremely well. For those few miles of the tough stuff (less than 1%), most people are sacrificing other 99%! Why? It baffles me.
2. Panniers don't help too much getting the bike back upright as the engine/crashbars that's where the weight is and completely sufficient to EASILY get the bike upright. I would rather not risk smashing my nice Jessie luggage, anything in the rear that may be damaged will likely cost less than one pannier. I've had a pannier rip right off in the high mountains of Mexico after a slow (kinda) speed crash, it sucks. Plus, panniers add extra weight, and if packed alot of potential extra weight. Pannier racks usually provide plenty of protection for exhausts and other parts.
3. The panniers don't do any harm in the garage, while on the open road they are windsails that decreases the overall the performance of the bike and, depending on perspective, the fun factor. And hard panniers create a potential danger hazard off road during a crash trapping a leg or even catching a leg during a dab (is a broken leg worth it?).
4. Negatives of Knobbies vs 50/50 tires. Knobbies have poor wet traction, increased vibrations especially on long distance rides, increased road noise, poor on road handling characteristics, and seldom last very long, and the cost to replace is high so poor value to mileage. A 50/50 may make one slow down or have difficulty riding the 1% of terrain.
BTW, I have a GIVI tank lock bag that is super easy to remove and take with me and hold a lot. I also keep a dry bag on the back held with Rps if I stop and need storage.
On the standard GS, there are no pannier racks with the Vario cases. The pannier racks come with the GSA or if added to a standard GS. With the side cases/panniers attached. If you were to draw a line from the bottom edge of the side case/pannier to the rear wheel, the final drive does not appear to touch the ground. With out the side cases/panniers attached, it appears that the final drive will touch the ground. In this scenario, the muffler and final drive would be protected in a relatively a low speed "dropping" or low side slide out. The damage to the final drive would probably be cosmetic only (e.g. scratches, gouges) and would most likely functional properly. I'd rather keep things looking as nice as possible.The muffler is covered with the rack that holds the pannier doesn't that provide protection?
I don't see how a pannier can cover a final drive unless it's mounted so low that you'd be hitting rocks riding. How often are final drives damaged in crashes, must be a pretty hard and fast crash to do so, and how often do panniers protect it from happening? That would have to be one hell of a crash to damage that final drive I would think. but perhaps I am wrong?
There's always an exception but to make a rule or decisions on exceptions becomes onerous and expensive and creates diminishing returns.
Day ride or trip, you're talking semantics.No, it's not a trip, it's a day ride.
So you guys need two 30 or 40 liter panniers to carry: a tire repair kit, simple tools, windshield and visor cleaner, thermos of drinking water and rain gear?
Don't you have a tank bag?
I've yet to read someone say those big metal panniers help their aerodynamics and improve the performance of their bike but I fear it's coming soon.......
And this thread is not about what people think of anyone, I've tried to make that clear but many seem to want to make it about that rather than discuss the topics. If you say you don't care, then you most certainly do or you wouldn't be adamantly saying you don't and deflecting and diverting the discussion to supposed personal attacks. It's a poor argument strategy.
Once again, WTF do you care if someone else has knobbies and panniers on their bike while it's parked in front of a store, restaurant or anywhere else? Since when did you become the arbiter of how good a certain bike is?Please re-read my actual posts. Not judging anyone and don't care. MY POINT IS: THE GS IS GREAT. IF YOU DON'T NEED THEM TAKE OFF THE KNOBBIES AND PANNIERS AND LOVE HOW GOOD THE GS BECOMES.
Mission accomplished.The impetus of the post was start a discussion and get people thinking
Ah yes, but no slouch with knobbies and panniers too!about HOW GOOD THE GS actually is when unencumbered of knobbies and two windsails (panniers).
That 1% could be when you do need them. Kinda like a fire extinguisher at home, pocket knife on your person or a tool kit on the bike.Why ride knobbies for the 1% you are gonna actually need them?
It all depends on how hard you push a knobby on pavement (and a non-knobby off pavement). I ordered my current E09 front sight unseen on clearance and was surprised at how aggressive it was. The real surprise? The thing iswhen pushing it on the street! Any knobby smooths out at highway speed, you do need to know the limits on pushing them in corners.1. Knobbies aren't good on pavement, I don't think anyone can argue that. Trailmax, Motoz GPS,TKC 70, Mitas E07, etc. are WAY better than any knobbies on the road and provide surprisingly good traction off.
Pannier wind effect is really only a deal above 50-60mph, not sure any fun is diminished.3. The panniers don't do any harm in the garage, while on the open road they are windsails that decreases the overall the performance of the bike and, depending on perspective, the fun factor.
I think you are being over dramatic. What knobbies have you ridden on? I’ve run TKC80, AX41, Scorpion Rally and E09. I never felt unsafe on pavement. Definitely not smooth below 55mph but above that wind and bike noise cancel it out.4. Negatives of Knobbies vs 50/50 tires. Knobbies have poor wet traction, increased vibrations especially on long distance rides, increased road noise, poor on road handling characteristics, and seldom last very long, and the cost to replace is high so poor value to mileage. A 50/50 may make one slow down or have difficulty riding the 1% of terrain.
I HATE tank bags, even took the crossbar off my handlebars because I don’t like the obstructed view. But if works for you a-ok, no judgment. If I had a long tour, I’d probably use one.BTW, I have a GIVI tank lock bag that is super easy to remove and take with me and hold a lot. I also keep a dry bag on the back held with Rps if I stop and need storage.
I always swore I'd never buy an GS or a BMW for that matter although I've always secretly desired an R80 GS Paris Dakar and love the looks of the old R75 bikes. The reason for my distain of the GS was the perception that GS's were for "posers". Most had (have) knobbies, stickers of places the bike never went, new thousand dollar aerostich suits, farkles galore, and the bike loaded for a RTW trip during a weekend day ride (or to starbucks ). However, I couldn't deny all the GS's at the Iron Butt Rallys back in the 00's.
I have to say I’m confused by the purpose of this post. You like to ride with street tires and no panniers. Well, bravo.I make my latte with an espresso machine at home. So I don't have to stop at Starbucks and critique all the bikes. I just keep riding.