There is this nasty little factoid about Synthetic oil...

That is it doesn't cling to engine parts as well as non-synthetic during periods of non-use. Synthetic oil manufacturers have been working, and I suspect for the most part solved these problems. Going with a part synthetic/organic oil for the most part solved these issues. (it's not really organic, is it?)

The folks that make Synthetic oil quack about how great it is, but never really indicate what's so good about it. Why is it better than it organic brother? We do know that it is supposed less susceptible to heat, we know that it has a higher surface tension, but what else?

Now the question is just how good does it really need to be? The same motorcycles that come to us are sold around the world, especially smaller displacement models. Anyone know what kind of motor oil is available in China? How about Montenegro? How about Kuwait? Angola? Mexico? Panama? Issue is that motorcycles in some of these countries are used as daily transportation and for the most part are reliable while being under maintained in hostile climates.

As an engineer I can tell you this, if we want to keep our reputation we always go conservative in our designs. Not doing so is just asking for serious reliability problems when John C. Customer gets hold of the product then decides to really overdo it. Overdo it as to reprogram the FI, remove the rev limiter, install strait pipes, put in a much more radical cam, higher compression pistons and oversize valves, all this done and nothing was modified in the bottom end, right? Also, add limited slip rear differential and 18" wide slicks. But it holds together. This is the power of over-engineering! (Then the value engineering department gets on it and wants to skimp on everything!)

So, IMHO the reality is that super high performance motor oil in our bikes may be overkill. Something that is "good quality" most likely will never let us down, providing it's the right grade and weight and is changed on a regular basis.

And that's what I think.

- John

 

The folks that make Synthetic oil quack about how great it is, but never really indicate what's so good about it. Why is it better than it organic brother? We do know that it is supposed less susceptible to heat, we know that it has a higher surface tension, but what else?

Now the question is just how good does it really need to be?

So, IMHO the reality is that super high performance motor oil in our bikes may be overkill. Something that is "good quality" most likely will never let us down, providing it's the right grade and weight and is changed on a regular basis.

Excellent points John. Part of the issue is whether dino or syn the oil you buy is a package. Most riders buy oil based primarily on viscosity, cost and propaganda. Some even look at the API rating but don't know what it means. One of the big things is how long the oil actually maintains those numbers on the bottle. I used to think a 0W50 HAD TO BE better than a 10W40. Not so. When a oil is produced, it starts with base stock and then comes the additives. To get that 0W50 extenders are added to the base stock at birth, but run it for a 1000 miles and you might have 10W30 in the crank as the chains of molecules break down. Synthetics are "supposed to" not break down as fast as dino's. Maybe, but like you say John, how good does it really need to be. IMO, I go back to an old saying from my youth, "don't sweat the small do do."

 

My main idea is run a quality oil. Change it and the filter regularly. :smile2:

 

Concur!

Love reading Oil threads..always entertaining, and sometimes, even informative!

I just changed the oil out on my 15 R1200GSW. Had to phone around to find some. After describing what I needed to one "helpful" autoparts store person, he found what I was looking for.

He said they had Shell Rotella T4 for diesel engines! The person on the phone stated....it'll work...I put it in my bike!!

Umm...no thanks. I ordered what I needed from my local MC shop.

 

I use Rotella T6 or Castro 4T every 3K because I like too change my oil between dealer visits and before dealer recommended maintenance. It's easy and therapeutic.

 

I have come to the conclusion that if we oversimplify choosing the oil we use in our LC bikes it comes down to using a Group III (highly refined dino) or Group IV (PAO) many of which are mixed with Group V (Ester) oils, there should be little doubt that a real synthetic oil (Group IV and V) are generally going to provide superior performance then Group III oils which are not much better than modern standard dino oil (Group II).

95% of the oils that we use are Group III including the BMW Adventec, Castrol Power 1 and Rotella T6 and if you are paying more than $40 for 4 quarts of Group III oil you are paying way too much and can get a Group IV (Bell EXS or Ravenol 4T) oil for about the same money.

Any oil spec'd for these bikes is going to work well if changed properly at the recommended intervals along with a good quality oil filter and the engine should last a good long time but there are some subtle nuances that I have noticed when switching between Castrol Power 1, Rotela T6 and BelRay ESX, they all feel good right after an oil change but with the Castrol I notice fairly quickly that the shift quality deteriorates as the miles rack up and the oil is water thin when drained at the recommended 6k miles, with the BelRay I notice that the transmission shifts smoother and the initial valve train clatter on start-up is not as bad and for a shorter a period; maybe half a second vs. a full second with the other oils.

But to argue over which is the better Group III oil is kinda silly as they are all mid-level performers, if you want the best then you use a Group IV which you can buy for about the same or less than many Group III oils that we are using, the worst offender (least bang for the buck) generally being the BMW oil that the dealer sells.

IMHO if you do your own oil changes and are going to use a Group III oil you cannot go wrong with Shell Rotela T6 it is the easiest to find, the least expensive and matches ALL of BMW required specifications.
If you prefer to use a Group IV or V oil Ravenol 4T is full Ester (group V) and a great choice for the money: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OJHLEV4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Dry starts without oil in the filter.

I refer to previous comments regarding dry starts.
I have almost no concern about a lack of lubrication for the first few seconds with a dry oil filter. Starting the engine at idle speed imparts a relatively small load on engine parts and with modern oils, their surface cohesion is high enough to always leave a lubricating film. The exception would be if the oil was drained and refilled a very long time later (perhaps days or weeks).
For dry starts, I'm more concerned about the timing chains running without hydraulic tension than friction wear to any other parts.

 

I would think that pre-filling an oil filter with oil during an oil change would help get the oil to all parts of the engine more quickly including the valve chain tensioners, although on the new LC engines pre-filling the filter is a pretty tough endeavor since the oil filter mounted vertically.
I pre-fill oil filters on my vehicles that I can simply due to the fact that it can't hurt anything and may actually help, I can't help but thinking about the old TV commercials that use to say "90% of engine wear happens at start-up".
I believe that modern oils stick to the inside of an engine better and also that PAO and Ester oils stick even better.

 

..... pre-filling an oil filter with oil during an oil change would help .....

Same as you: I would always do this if I could do it without spill.

...... 90% of engine wear happens at start-up..... .

True. Startup usually refers to a "cold" startup without the oil at operating temperature.

 

thank you for the recommendation on the Ravenol 4T. in what group does Motorex 4T boxer oil fall, III or IV? that is what I presently use however I have noticed that shifting is not as good towards the end of the cycle.

 

Great question and very difficult to answer correctly, there are many synthetic oils on the market that give no idea as to what type of synthetic oil they are, you would think that oil makers that are putting PAO or Esters in the bottle would be more than happy to print as much all over the bottle but that isn't normally the case, in Europe synthetic oil must be either PAO or Ester or a combination of both anything else is not allowed to be labeled "Synthetic" but in North America manufacturers are allowed to call Group III oils synthetic even though the base stock is petroleum.
With this in mind knowing that Motorex is a Swiss company it is safe to surmise that there oil is either Group IV or V but probably a combination of both since PAO oils have some unique and beneficial properties and Esters have others making it common practice for synthetic oil makers to mix the two however, if the specific Motorex oil is bottled for the North American market it could be Group III but I would suspect that Motorex 4T Boxer Oil is a Group IV oil.

There is one particular popular oil company in the U.S that markets their synthetic motor oil by bashing the competitions synthetic motor oils and they do this without ever disclosing what Group of oil their products fall into but by insinuating that they are Group IV or V when in fact they are not, many U.S oil companies intentionally make it difficult to find the answers so I always assume that synthetic labeled oils are Group III unless otherwise stated on the container or if the oil was imported from Europe and packaged for their home market.

Even though I have overly simplified this whole oil thing by categorizing oils based on the Grouping classification there is also the additive packages that are used in all oils, these packages can make up roughly 20% of what's in the bottle and some are better than others but these packages are nearly impossible to debate since the companies keep their make-up near secret.

 

being that the motorex 4T is probably a IV then I will go ahead and change the oil this weekend...ugh

 

The only thing that makes me suspect of Motorex Boxer oil is that you you notice the shifting quality worsens towards the end of the oils service interval, I notice this same thing when using virtually any Group III oil but I have never experienced it when using BelRay EXC or Ravenol 4T which are both Group IV (PAO/Ester blend), this normally occurs when the oil is broken down due to shearing caused primarily by the transmission gears, something that man made synthetic oils deal with very well normally.

 

thanks, I will try the Ravenol next time, I have already purchased the motorex so it is what it is....it is cheaper by almost $20 too!

 

Here:

The surprising truth about motor oils

This pretty much tells it like it is.

- John

 

Funny! I posted that in my XS-11 riding days.



Last time I got into the "Oil Religious Wars" I did some research for the XS-11 group & posted that article on our email list. Nice to see someone made a permanent page of it. 0

In the paraphrased words of a wise old mechanic: 'Any oil is better than no oil, fresh oil is better than old dirty oil, old synthetic is better than old dino. I recommend customers change oil more often as "best insurance" but don't tell them it is MY insurance so I can afford to keep my lazy nephew employed improving MY family harmony!'

 

This 20+ year old taxi cab oil test article makes one interesting point which is basically that: All motor oils performs the same.
And if you (as in any forum member reading this thread) believe that I can see how some people find oil threads pointless.
I actually had a similar experience driving delivery vans in college for a company that was cheap, they bought the cheapest vans that would do the job at the time with various engines and they got LOF (Lube, Oil and Filter) changes in the 12-15k mile range, the service was also done by a nearby shop that I'm sure used the cheapest oil and filters money could buy, the delivery company had a fleet of about 25 vans ranging in ODO readings of new to over 300K miles and in the 3+ years that I drove for them not once had I heard of an engine mechanically failing nor did any of the vans consume much if any oil between changes that I was ever aware of.
But for some reason I can still get a lot out of a good oil article, thread, discussion or material data sheet.
And in our bikes the oil does more than just lubricate the engine.

 

Oil

I have stated the following for years in oil threads and still find it 100% relavent:
1. I have never seen an engine failure attributed to oil that was close to manufacturer's spec changed at even double the replacement interval or less. Have you?
2. I sell my bikes well before any major component fails. To the best of my knowledge every bike I have ever sold is on the road. A caveat is that you can throw in the guys who crash their bikes out of the longevity stats too.

That old study on taxi cabs is in my opinion the ONLY valid experiment I have ever seen that directly measure wear and relates it to oil. I do give some credence to long distance fleet studies using oil analysis on LARGE fleets and running long distances. If there was a test of a zillion bikes all having oil analysis done with a history of part failures on said bikes, then it would mean something. BUT, a real big BUT, I go back to #1 above.

 

I agree with OldButNotDead's #1 but in a forum that leaves nothing to discuss and oil is fun to talk about, if #1 was the end all beat all statement regarding oil it would be the same as going onto a food forum and stating that "Bread and water is all you need to survive" probably a true statement but certainly no fun.

There are other nice little nuances that fine oils may provide on our bikes like shifting quality, noise/vibration/heat reduction and possibly even less wear, we talk about oil and say that if your engine doesn't break down because of an oil related failure you must be using the right oil but what about simply getting the most miles out of the engine/tranny, I would venture a bet that if a cheap oil yielded 125,000 miles (hypothetically) before the engine had significant wear that required a rebuild that is duration could have been extended by the using a higher quality oil maybe even greatly extended.
To me the real question is what is not what is sufficient but what is the very best oil for these bikes I don't have that answer but I read and try to figure it out....just for fun mainly.

 

Oil Change



Hi Guys, new to this Forum and also GS's so a little patience whilst I find my feet....

i PICK UP MY FIRST gs on Thursday, It had its last oil change in 2015 and has done 1000 miles since then! Would you do an oil/ filter change?
Any help appreciated.:|

 

without being technical, the way I decide on what to do to my bike is this; if I spoil it, it will spoil me! :wink2:

 

It is a general consensus amungst most mechanics that if you drive few miles to change the engine oil after a year.

Every time I buy something used (bike, car, mower) I go through it and change all the fluids, even if they have receipts showing it has recently been done, that way I get to use the products (oil/filter) that I prefer and take the care that only a very anal owner could give a machine.

The flip side is that it may be a waste of money, but in your case after 2 years few people will likely recommend to continue using that oil.

 

Cheers guys, thanks for the advice. Oil and filter change then, might as well do plugs at the same time. Then off to Italy.:wink2:

 

where in Italy? I am fortunate to have been there 12 times and if it is your 1st visit I can suggest some stops if you want....only northern half though. how long are you there?

 

I'm due for the break in service soon.My dealer says I need to change my engine oil,bevel oil and filter when i hit the first 1000kms but looking at the owner's manual it says the first oil and filter change is to be done only when i hit 10,000 kms.When i confronted them with this,they said that's what the service instructions are from BMW.I'm a little confused..could somebody shed some light on this please.Thanks guys

 

looking at the owner's manual it says the first oil and filter change is to be done only when i hit 10,000 kms.When i confronted them with this,they said that's what the service instructions are from BMW.I'm a little confused..could somebody shed some light on this please.Thanks guys

What version of the owners manual? Mine ('13 wethead version) says nothing as to what is done at each service.

An engine oil change has been standard at the 600 mile/1,000Km service for a long time. The running-in checklist for the current wetheads in the Repair Manual specifies an engine oil change and a final drive oil change. The goal is to replace oil that may contain contaminants from break in.

 

My 2016 LC has a change at 6000 MILES, oil and filter. There isn't an oil change at 600 miles, just the running in check. I had my dealer do the 600 mile check because I'm gullible and totally bought the "the 600 mile check is one of the most important services for the bike and needs to be done by BMW." I assumed they changed the oil but do not know for sure. IMO, and have done so on several bikes, you should drop the oil quick, maybe 100 miles or so to get break in crap out. Might be an old wives tale but can't hurt. Then at 6000 miles I dumped the oil and filter and each 6k interval thereafter. I still don't worry if it creeps out to 7 or 8 k.

 

The 600 Miles Running In Check includes an oil and filter change and bevel gear oil change as well as checking fluid levels.

 

I was referring to the owner's manual that came with the new bike and towards the last few pages on the service interval section it doesn't state that the oil and bevel oil is to be replaced at the break in check hence the reason why i was a little concerned but since Jetspeed posted this check list,I'll just go with the flow then..Thanks buddy.:smile2:

 

Is anyone using Amsoil and if so what weight. My bike is a 2005 with 30k on the odometer. I used Mobil 1 synthetic on my last change. Just got back from a 2000 mile trip and want to do the maintenance.

 

Mobil 1 is probably about as good an oil as you need, one misconception is that Amsoil is PAO or Ester based and it's not although they certainly try and insinuate it is.
In my opinion if you are using a Group 3 oil which is what Mobil 1 and Amsoil is it probably doesn't much matter which one you go with, if you want the best synthetic oil look for an Ester based (Group 5) oil, Bel-Ray EXS and Revenol Ester are probably the best for the money and easiest to find on Amazon.
I would use SAE 15W-50 or 20W-50 in the summer in my hexhead.

 

Hey all, first post here.

I'd just like to run an old question of mine by the forum. If the main reason for motorcycle-specific oil is because it is most of the time shared by engine/gearbox/wet-clutch then is there any particular reason why I should spend twice the amount on moto oil considering that my 2009 1200GS doesnt share engine oil with any other part of the bike? Since its a hot summer, I'm basically debating using a "moto" 20W50 vs a regular 20W50 (half the price).

Thank you!

 

Hey all, first post here.

I'd just like to run an old question of mine by the forum. If the main reason for motorcycle-specific oil is because it is most of the time shared by engine/gearbox/wet-clutch then is there any particular reason why I should spend twice the amount on moto oil considering that my 2009 1200GS doesnt share engine oil with any other part of the bike? Since its a hot summer, I'm basically debating using a "moto" 20W50 vs a regular 20W50 (half the price).

Thank you!

Maybe a late reply, but this is my thought exactly. Actually, (and coorect me if I am mistaken) many auto oils have friction modifiers that are no-bueno for wet clutches. Thus the moto specific oils. with a dry clutch there may be a benefit to those modifiers. At any rate I have an '07 GSA with just over 92K on the clock. Runs as good as the day she was brought home. Just got back from 13 days in Baja and did not burn a drop! I have always used synthetic and try to find eith Mobil 1 on sale but my favorite is LiquidMoly 10W-60.

 

Since I have decided to go with the Shell Rotella T6 5w40, I did a search for who sells it.

Advance Auto $19.99 / gal on all weights Shell Rotella T6. Just picked up 2 .

 

IMO BMW specified 5W40 oil to cover the gamut of ambient temperature ranges the bike may operate in throughout the world. It rationalises the oils dealers have to keep.
The lower (thinner) the oils W rating the better for cold start up protection. But, 5W is rated to circa -30 C and 10W to -25 C so if you live where the min temps are above even 0 C degrees, a 10W oil will be more than 'thin' enough.
And, the smaller the viscosity range ie 10W40 as against 5w40, the more sheer resistant it is because less viscosity modifiers (which shear down) are required. True full synthetics are less prone to shear or do not shear because they have less viscosity modifiers or none at all.
I have tried many different oils in BMW bikes over the past 4 years and 95,000 kms changing at 5000-7000 kms and i keep coming back to an Australian produced (blended) oil from Penrite 10w40 MC-4ST 10W-40 (100% PAO & ESTER) | Penrite Oil
This is a true full synthetic POA/Ester oil which Penrite claim is 'shear free'. Penrite also do a 5w40 POA/Ester oil but this is shear resistant and i assume this is because they have to add viscosity modifiers to extended the viscosity range.

I have used Penrite 5w40 before in my 1200 & 1250GS. In the 1250GS after 7000 kms the gear change still felt good, an indication the oil had not sheared noticeably.
I last used Shell Advance Ultra 4T 10w40 (nearly the Shell oil BMW specify for the 1250) which was OK at 7000 kms but just replaced with Penrite 10w40 POA/Ester, the first i have used this particular Penrite oil in the 1250GS with 30,000 kms.
Mindful that new oil is always better ??, I can not believe how quiet & smooth the engine is running this Penrite oil. The typical internal knocking & clatter of the boxer engine is reduced by about 75% once moving and is barely audible (with ear plugs). So much so, it has made me rethink about moving from this agricultural boxer engine to a Honda Africa Twin.

Use a full synthetic oil.
10W40 should suffice for the majority of the world. And imo is better than a 5w40.
Change oil frequently, before the manufacturer's recommendation, especially if ridden in traffic a lot.
If you can obtain the Penrite 10w40 POA/Ester i suggest you give it a try. The guys i ride with who have tried the 10w40 POA/Ester (to shut me up recommending it to them probably) have stayed using it and are as impressed as i am with its performance and longevity, especially for the reasonable cost.

Ps i am not affiliated with Penrite in any way, other than paying for and using their oils in all my vehicles.