On a wethead I check every 12K miles which for me is is about once a year. No changes, yet.

 

what mileage do you have? did you do it yourself or dealer? and what did they charge?

thank you!

 

It isn't necessary to replace the gaskets every inspection. Wipe them down and reinstall...they're pretty tough will last numerous times. Manual suggest every 12,000 miles...go by miles not time for valve checks. After second check (24,000 miles) without much movement I'd go to that 18,000 interval as you mentioned.

 

thats a good plan i guess,

do it at 12k, 24k, then start doing it once per 2 years or once every 18k. (depends on the miles per yeaR)

regarding the gaskets, it should be replaced. it's not about tough, it's about rubber being torqued in and changing shape.

luckily however, on GS the cylinder head is outside and if you do have a gasket failure you will see the leak and then replace it!

 

I did all of my 12k miles service except for the valve check. I was getting a tire at Big Sky BMW, Missoula recently, right at 12k miles and asked them about it. They said that they've only seen one bike need valve service at that mileage and this particular nbike had some serious issues, much more than valves out of adj.

Because our bikes have shims, I questioned them about that also: is there just one size? do you have to buy a set, IOW what's the deal on it?
They told me they don't even carry shims in stock, that if a bike needed them replaced they would have to order them. They felt it wasn't worth the hassle of keeping them in inventory because it just wasn't that common of a "wear" item. And they said that they come in different sizes, so a measurement must be done to determine what shim would be needed, if replacment was necessary.

Does that sound right? It was clearly what they said. I didn't misunderstand.

So, now it is 3k miles later and I'll probably pull the covers and check them, keeping fingers crossed, but if anyone has any insight to support Big Sky's impression, I'd be interested.

Thanks

John

 

I did all of my 12k miles service except for the valve check. I was getting a tire at Big Sky BMW, Missoula recently, right at 12k miles and asked them about it. They said that they've only seen one bike need valve service at that mileage and this particular nbike had some serious issues, much more than valves out of adj.


Thanks

John

I only know one person who has 2 GS, both liquid cooled and he never done the valve service.

but yea it's all about PEACE OF MIND hehe.. so i dont know.
i'm at 5500 miles now, so my next service is just engine oil change in 500 miles and i'm going to do that myself.
by the time i get to 12k, ill see!
but i asked bmw, they told me it's about $200 to $350 (with adjustments if needed) so it's not tooooo bad...
the whole 12k service is $700. but i will do the engine oil, gear oil, air filter myself and take it in for valve inspection only.
and they charge $140 for gaskets. they gave me the estimate. it's about $75 per valve cover gasket. WAY TOO MUCH.

 

I've had the valves checked twice along with safety check for peace of mind. I do all the other maintenance. The first one cost $350 because they didn't reuse gasket and second time $150 reusing gasket. Unless the gasket gets hard, I say reuse it!

 

my dealer didnt give me the option to decide on whether re-use or not re-use the gasket

what's your year and mileage?

 

FYI, 6k service, on newer models, includes flushing the brake fluid and reading of codes. A GS 911 pays for itself on that one service.

yes, peace of mind is sometimes more elusive than an enjoyable meal with Brad and Angelina.

The gaskets are hard to begin with, unless they changed the material; they are plastic. They last tens of thousands of miles of miles.

 

includes flushing the brake fluid

I don't want to steal the thread but can you elaborate on how the GS911 aides in bleeding the brakes?

 

re the gaskets...
going on my experience with an 1150 and a 1200, both roadsters. the gaskets are made of a hard plastic material, nothing soft. They last. The torque values for the bikes mentioned were like 8 and 10 nM. In fact, on one of the bikes, I think it was the 1150, I replaced them after 10s of thousands of miles for no reason other than "just because they were that old," and had some buyer's regret. It seemed to me that the old ones fit better than the new ones because, I thought, they had settled in and took the shape of the small imperfections of the cover and base. I ultimately saved the old ones, and they still hang on the garage wall. Neither the new ones nor old ones leaked. Both old and new looked the same condition, the new ones did not look "new" nor did the old ones look "old."
I am "assuming" that the material for the GS is the same, and the torque values are similar---someone please correct if that is an incorrect assumption. I have not yet removed on my 16 GS so can't comment on personal experience with it.

Re the brake flush
The brake flush is on the list for the 6k service. In the past it was just "inspect," but on the newer bikes the FIRST 6k service states clearly "replace." Subsequent it is time and inspect.

re the GS911
The GS911 does not aid in the brake flush, but part of every service is to read the fault codes, which the GS911 does. It's pricey, but addresses the "peace of mind" dept nicely. Example, after a recent trip, I started having the experience of the bike not starting on the first throw of the starter. Also, I noticed at slow speeds she behaved sluggishly (like a pig with distemper) when navigating tight spaces, made the actual handling tricky and I almost went over on a simple neighborhood turn because of it.

I thought maybe it was some bad gas, from somewhere in a derelict gas station in NE NM, only had 86, and I only put in a gallon or so. When home I put in some seafoam and it corrected the issue so far I think--ie handling and power like new now. BUT...I wanted to see if anything untoward was going on, so I slipped in the GS911 and ran the fault codes, and all was fine.
--->>> Peace of mind.

Aside: for years I knew of the GS911 and because it's pricey ($350 ish) I resisted. When I got the GS, I bit the bullet and got one when I took delivery-it's price paled in comparison to the bike's and the WAF (wife acceptance factor) was easier at initial outlay than later. I am really glad I have it though, admittedly, it does far more than I understand. Just to be able to read the fault codes is worth the price. It eliminated the trip (75 miles x2) to the dealer for the 6k and 12k service as it was the only "service" I otherwise could not perform. And my time is cheaper than the dealer's, and I enjoy getting to know the bike.

I REALLY wish the GS911 could turn on the Dynamic Brake Light. It cannot, it seems.
If some euro guys have a hack for that, please post!

 

re the gaskets...
going on my experience with an 1150 and a 1200, both roadsters. the gaskets are made of a hard plastic ma, and I enjoy getting to know the bike.

I REALLY wish the GS911 could turn on the Dynamic Brake Light. It cannot, it seems.
If some euro guys have a hack for that, please post!

dynamic brake light as in, it flashes when you stop?
my friend has that, but it does it on an extra light he added. maybe it's just a small chip with it.

btw, shouldn't the bike itself, set the engine light or error light on your dash if you have an issue?

that is, if there is an issue, you don't need GS911 to know there is an issue cause the light in your dash will light up if there is, GS911 will tell you what the issue is. so you only need to scan it if you see a light on your dash,

same as the car, you dont need to plug an OBDII scanner unless check engine light is on!.

 

Every 6000 miles.

Oh, valve lash, that's a hot topic. I do mine every 6000 miles regardless of time. I find the lash tends to drift around a bit on the R bikes (GS and RT) but never on the F650.

- John

 

Oh, valve lash, that's a hot topic. I do mine every 6000 miles regardless of time. I find the lash tends to drift around a bit on the R bikes (GS and RT) but never on the F650.

- John

yourself or by the dealer? do you put new gasketS?
did you ever need to adjust the vavles?

what's the year and mileage of your bike

 

Intervals

I know what the manuals say, but I've always had this thing - no matter which bike it was - that I do a "minor" service (check/change fluids etc) on the 5000km, and a "major" (same as minor only with filters, check clearances, pad thickness, nip everything up, etc) on the 10000km.
Obviously I don't bleed the brakes that often, that's an annual kind of thing.
I know I really don't need to, but it's that feeling of knowing everything has been done, versus that maybe I should have done that, but it should be ok niggling uncertainty. Know what I mean?
Some call it OCD, some might consider it pedantic, or just anal. I call it peace of mind.
Greg

 

I know what the manuals say, but I've always had this thing - no matter which bike it was - that I do a "minor" service (check/change fluids etc) on the 5000km, and a "major" (same as minor only with filters, check clearances, pad thickness, nip everything up, etc) on the 10000km.
Obviously I don't bleed the brakes that often, that's an annual kind of thing.
I know I really don't need to, but it's that feeling of knowing everything has been done, versus that maybe I should have done that, but it should be ok niggling uncertainty. Know what I mean?
Some call it OCD, some might consider it pedantic, or just anal. I call it peace of mind.
Greg

I AGREE,
it's a maintenance OCD hehe.
i got 5600 on the bike now, so by the time she hits 12k ill figure out what to do, most likely ill have it checked.

 

I have a 2013 GSW with 42,000 miles.
I check the valve clearance every 12,000 miles and have not yet had to adjust although the last check (@ 36k miles) showed that they are all on the tight side but still within spec, so I decided to measure each shim and record it so that I can order shims ahead of time when needed.

 

I have a 2013 GSW with 42,000 miles.
I check the valve clearance every 12,000 miles and have not yet had to adjust although the last check (@ 36k miles) showed that they are all on the tight side but still withing spec, so I decided to measure each shim and record it so that I can order shims ahead of time when needed.

good idea, but how will you know which to order? Is there enough difference in thickness that it's obvious which one it should be? Why are they available in different thicknesses? Does everything else around the shim also wear?

 

Thanks, JetSpeed, and I agree with Xetcetc, pictures the next time, please

since valve clearance is reduced with normal wear.

why is that? It would seem that it, the clearance, would increase with wear? And how do you check the cam timing and adjust?

I've seen the Jin Von Baden video of the valve check/ shim replacement. IIRC he doesn't address the actual measurement of the old shim to determine which to order. And it looks pretty straightforward. Having trouble picturing all this. Also, you must be using a micrometer caliper. The one I have will not give that fine a measure, ie to the hundredth of a mm.

Is there a graphic out there that shows the layout of all this. Sorry to be dense on it.

 

I've seen the Jin Von Baden video of the valve check/ shim replacement. IIRC he doesn't address the actual measurement of the old shim to determine which to order.

Remove shim. Measure with micrometer if you can't read or don't trust the writing on the shim. Or a decent caliper that will read to .001". A cheap ($20 or less) .001" micrometer is good enough if you are willing to do the conversions.

Jim posted his pics to this forum a couple of years ago: http://www.r1200gs.info/forum/14-maintenance-modifications/15362-valve-adjustment-new-gsw.html

Measure clearance. Note desired clearance. Measure existing shim. New shim size is [measured clearance] - [desired clearance] + [existing shim size]. Example: Lets say one of my exhaust valves is at the minimum (0.34mm) and I want to move it to the closer to the center of the allowable range (0.38mm). When I pull the cam I find that the existing shim was 2.04mm. The new shim needs to be

0.34 - 0.38 + 2.04 = 2.0mm

I'd order a 2.0 shim. JetSpeed has already measured all of his existing shims. When he next checks his valves. All he has to do after measuring clearances is plug the numbers into the formula and see what valve shims need to be ordered. I'm not that organized. I'd have to put the bike back together, order the shims, then pull the cams again to install the new shims once they arrive. I'm assuming my dealer won't have what I need in stock.

 

thanks, guys, appreciate it. It is much clearer. Really.

However, a specialized tool kit with its own pelican case and foam cutouts is scary:surprise:

Thanks

John

 

There's well over $300 worth of tools in there but the first trip it saves you from having to take it to the dealer for these simple adjustments it will save you more than that.

 

Today I checked the valve clearances and they were all in spec. The intakes were all .15mm and the exhausts were all .38 or .381. IOW right in the middle of tolerances.

It was an easy job. It was particularly easy to find TDC, far easier than on my 09 roadster or 04 roadster.
The gaskets are the same robust material as was used on my 09 and 04. I have no misgivings about re-using them until they break---and that could be a VERY long time.

Thanks for all the info.

 

you did it yourself? how did you measure it, did you take photos? please share pictures if you could.

thanks

 

I assume he used feeler gauges. How else would you measure the clearance?

My contribution to the "don't do this" files. Don't do this:

That bit of rubber is supposed to go back in place BEFORE you put the valve cover back on. It goes here:

You can see it below the bottom cam. You need to remove it for feeler gauge access to the bottom rear exhaust valve. It simply snaps into place.

 

I assume he used feeler gauges. How else would you measure the clearance?

My contribution to the "don't do this" files. Don't do this:

I ALMOST DID THAT! shouting intentional. HA!
drip pan
remove sparkplugs
remove valve covers
top dead center
feeler gauges
record readings
clean and reuse gasket
make sure gasket around spark plug hole is
put that black rubber thing back in
close up and tighten to 10nM
the above is a truncated version


X etc etc----yes, feeler gauges---you need 0.10-0.17mm and 0.34-> 0.41mm
you don't need every one in between, but enough to be sure it's not too tight or too loose and then to get a GOOD idea of what the actual measurement is

check this out

the Jim von Baden disk is better by a little, but this shows you--and this one is free

 

Valve Clearance Check Schedule

My bike has done 51,000km and the valves are still within spec. They don't seem to need much adjustment.
What amazed me was that when I took out the valve shims, they were all identical size which shows that the machining of all the valve gear is at set dimensions - that's the value of CNC machining!

 

The rubber shim thing at the bottom of the valve area is called "twist protection" it has nothing to do with measuring valve clearance other than don't forget to make sure that it's back in place before bolting the cover back on.
It's unclear exactly what this rubber piece does and I think that the nomenclature BMW uses for it is misleading, my best guess is that it takes up space that oil would normally collect in and helps channel the oil to flow back into the crankcase.

 

ah ok,
when you take out the v.covers, does the oil spill from the cylinder head?... or just a few drops?

ill check the video that was posted before adding more questions . im at work and utube is blocked here!

 

From Planet Dirt

Hi there:
BMW has a scheduled valve adjustment at 6000 and then every 12000 miles. If you don't ride that much every year at least you should do it every other year. After some time of riding your bike you learn to recognize if something is not like it used to be so among other things when you notice changes of power response on your engine one of the possible causes is valve clearance.
And……..It's not necessary to change the gaskets every time.
If you don't have the ability or the knowledge to do it yourself then you go to the dealer and you have to pay their fee whatever this one is. …..or you can start training yourself doing small jobs, simple jobs like changing the oil, and the air filter, also one of them is to change the transmission fluid…….and after a few times you do something more complex like changing a tire or changing brake pads, and as you become better doing this you can challenge yourself in more complex jobs. Three very important rules apply for this.
1. Buy the Haynes type manual for your bike. Mine is the " BMW R 1200 dohc Twins '10 to '12 ". I paid around U$ 50 for it and I bought it on Ebay. Another item very helpful to have is the " BMW Motorrad DVD Repair manual. Mine is the 03/2011 6th Edition R models K2x GS. Also bought it on Ebay for around U$ 20; I follow this last one more than the book because it tells you step by step what you need to do, with what tool and also with all the fluids if you need to change one, and the amount needed.
2. Buy the parts you need with anticipation, and buy the best parts you can find. If you do things yourself, You suppose to save the labor money not the parts money. Dealers charge by the hour which is the time they suppose to spend doing the job. That doesn't mean they spend that much time, and between U$ 60 to U$ 80 an hour is their fee. They also mark up 30% for parts…..so if you need $ 100 in parts the price for you is $ 130.
For valves adjustment and anything else I go online to Max BMW motorcycles, then I click parts, then Fiche, then the model of my bike, and I get a very detail catalog of all the possible parts listed for my bike, including the shims that are called semi spheres and are U$ 8 a piece
And the last item of the trilogy……….. you need the right TOOLS. BMWs are metric and there are just a few that are special…..but with some imagination and patience you can find them in your local store or on line .

I started doing things myself when I bought my first car, many years ago, and the only way I can afford a bike like this is because I can do most of the maintenance.
Try yourself…..you'll be impressed

 

Valve Shims

Can anyone tell me the size (outer diameter) of the water cooled engine shims?

Looks like the oem shims are about $7-8 each. I'm thinking it might be cheaper long term to get a kit/assortment.

 

Can anyone tell me the size (outer diameter) of the water cooled engine shims?

Looks like the oem shims are about $7-8 each. I'm thinking it might be cheaper long term to get a kit/assortment.

I forget the shim diameter off the top of my head but I had the same mindset as you a few months ago and went looking for a kit, unfortunately these shims appear to be proprietary and no kit could be found.

Just to add my 2 cents to this whole valve adjust/check thing:

Make absolutely certain to keep things 100% clean in the engine while measuring or working, especially keep the cams clean when removing, any dirt could kill the engine.

*Update* - Wiseco makes a shim kit for the BMW LC GS motor part # VSK40 (8.9mm diameter shims).

 

Shims - How 2...

With a shim valve adjusted type engine, start by measuring the valve lash (the clearance between the valve stem and tappet). You'll need to remove the rocker box (valve covers) and rotate the engine to the correct position to do this.* There is a maximum and minimum clearance, I have a "Go/NoGo" feeler gauge that's just aces for this. The thickness of the gauge is the maximum clearance, then it's machined down to minimum clearance. So if the gauge will fit between the tappet and valve stem, it's not too tight, but it should stop at the ridge for maximum clearance, indicating it's not too loose. If this is what you have you're good to go. If the entire gauge slips through (too loose) or the thin part is too tight you'll need to adjust.

Now it becomes a measurement game. You'll need a set of thickness gauges in .01 mm increments, since you know the target clearance use the gauges to determine exactly how much change is necessary, measure the clearance, a good fit is required, then if the clearance is too tight you'll need to obtain a shim that is the difference between the clearance you just measured and the correct clearance.

Do whatever you need to do to swap the shim out, put it all back together and remeasure. Should be good.

Don't ask how I know...make sure it's sano. A spec of carbon or dirt in the bucket will throw the entire re-measurement off and you'll need to start over.

Observations - Air cooled engines (air heads, especially later ones) get a LOT of valve lash drift. These should be checked rigorously. 5000 mile intervals do it. Screw and nut adjusters. Easy. Oilheads are pretty low maintenance. After the engine settles in you only need to check them at 12,000 mike intervals. Heaxheads likewise, there is some drift that occurs. LQ engines, like my F-650, in 50,000 miles it's never required adjustment. From interval to interval it's always right on. I suspect that our LQ boxers will be like this as well, but it's a new engine design, so a little "trepiddaciousness" at first will go a long way.

People have asked me (I don't know why they should) why valve lash drifts. Usually the valve lash gets tighter, this comes from the valve steam stretching or the valve head recessing into the valve seat. This causes less lash, then eventually none, then the valve remains slightly open eventually allowing ultra hot combustion gases to pass by burning the sh*t out of the valve and valve seat. Wah Wah... The lash becoming looser is less common, this comes usually from poor lubrication between the tappet and valve steam, or perhaps wear on the rocker heel and camshaft, also steaming from either poor lubrication or poor metallurgy. (See Chinese diesel engines)

Anyway, that's what I know...

- John

* The Otto cycle, or 4 stroke engine rotates 720 degrees for every power stroke, so when you are looking for the right place to rotate the engine to set up the tappet adjustment marks realize there are two locations, find the right one where you have valve, the other one the valve will most likely be depressed down.

Here's a good video...

 

OH! This is good as an oil thread...

 

Valve checks and shims

Indeed the shims are 8.9mm OD.
I check my valve clearances every oil change but is somewhat a waste of time. They hardly vary at all. I think every 20,000km (12,000 miles) is good enough.
I check the valve clearances because it's quick to do. Moreover, after loosening the valve cover I get about half a cup of oil from each side that doesn't drain with the drain plug moved.
After 50,000+ I haven't replaced the valve cover gaskets and have no sign of leaking oil.

 

Indeed the shims are 8.9mm OD.
I check my valve clearances every oil change but is somewhat a waste of time. They hardly vary at all. I think every 20,000km (12,000 miles) is good enough.
I check the valve clearances because it's quick to do. Moreover, after loosening the valve cover I get about half a cup of oil from each side that doesn't drain with the drain plug moved.
After 50,000+ I haven't replaced the valve cover gaskets and have no sign of leaking oil.

Both exhaust valves on the right side of my 2015 are right at the limit and should be changed. This is at 46,000 miles. None of the other valves seem to be changing much.

 

first time

Recently purchased a 2012 gs with 35,000 miles on it. Did the first valve check on it today and replaced spark plugs. Everything was good, lower intake valve on left was in specs but close to the limit on the tight side. Others were right in the sweet spots. I'll be checking them again next winter and looking for changes. Hopefully they'll all be in exactly the same spots. Plugs looked good color wise but all the spark surfaces were eroded and rounded off. It idles much smoother with the new plugs. I suspect they had never been changed. Checked alternator belt but it looked fine. I'll put that off for a while.

 

the 04, I did the viewing plug method and that was ok. The 09 was the problem. The "arrow" was very hard to see, the engraving was very shallow and almost invisible. Even though I knew it was there, it was still hard to see. I cleaned it well and tried to put some paint on it, but, of course, the oil dissolved that! Duh! Can't remember if I later used the stick method or not? I agree though that IF the arrow were deeper and easily seen, it would've been easy to locate TDC.

 

great info.thx..