[PerazziMx14]

Just be aware that the LC and Shift-Head bikes require different stuff.

I've had a hex and a couple oil-heads. I did similar for the first 20K or so, then used synthetic. Once the rings really seat, they stop using oil and you can use the good stuff....It's possible you don't need to and the bike will last just as long...I don't really know. Lots of others use non-synth in them. I think you get more temp tolerance and easier warm-ups with synth, but it does cost more. ...All good!

Wonder how all the rings have seated on engines that manufacturers have used synthetic oil in from the very start? I mean they've only been doing this for 20 for 30 years now so maybe there isn't conclusive data available yet??

 

[JR543]

2000 Aprilia RSV Mille R… I used Mobil 1 in it and clutch started slipping in4th, 5th and 6th at mid to high revs. I changed it back to dino oil. Clutch improved but still slipped. I ended up getting a new Barnett clutch for it. No slip and still using dino in it. Wet clutches change the game a bit.

Sounds expensive.

 

[Krons]

Again, apples and oranges. A wet-clutch motorcycle is not a Japanese car. If you put Mobil 1 or equivalent in your wet clutch bike, the clutch is going to slip. The clutch lining may not suspend in the oil right. There may be platings or coatings on the bike that are not compatible. Ask me how I learned that one. There may be other surfaces that will slip too much in the engine. I've heard of roller bearings that never turn with too-slick synthetic oils and develop flat spots on the rollers. Point is, you don't know what you don't know. If you want to assume you're smarter than the engine designer and also assume that the engine designer is trying to rip you off (not inconceivable). If you don't care about resale or warranty, then use whatever you like. I'm not gonna do that.

Edited my post and added JASO MA2 to the liquid cooled bikes. I figured that was assumed, but worth noting.

I do still believe there are many fine oils to choose from that are not BMW branded.

Was the Mobil 1 you used a JASO oil? For sure any oil with an ‘energy conserving’ label is an absolute no-go for wet clutches.

 

[Gmachine]

Wonder how all the rings have seated on engines that manufacturers have used synthetic oil in from the very start? I mean they've only been doing this for 20 for 30 years now so maybe there isn't conclusive data available yet??

Again, apples and oranges…. Air & oil cooling don’t provide the same thermal stability that liquid cooling does. This is why BMW chose to finally make this change. Tolerances can be much tighter with liquid cooling. Neither my ‘17 LC RT nor my current’22 1250 GSA use any oil between changes. I’ve used full synthetic oils in both since the 600 mile service. …Progress!!!

 

[PerazziMx14]

Again, apples and oranges…. Air & oil cooling don’t provide the same thermal stability that liquid cooling does. This is why BMW chose to finally make this change. Tolerances can be much tighter with liquid cooling. Neither my ‘17 LC RT nor my current’22 1250 GSA use any oil between changes. I’ve used full synthetic oils in both since the 600 mile service. …Progress!!!

not really my 90’s era air cooled Ducati’s my water cooled 2000’’s era water cooled Ducati’s and my air cooled late model Guzzi’s all came factory filled with Shell or AGIP synthetic.

 

[Gmachine]

not really my 90’s era air cooled Ducati’s my water cooled 2000’’s era water cooled Ducati’s and my air cooled late model Guzzi’s all came factory filled with Shell or AGIP synthetic.

Well, I guess that might mean that we should stick to the manufacturer's recommendations then because making generalizations bike to bike, maker to maker doesn't work?

The only Duc I've ever owned was a red '99 or so ST4. I think it was liquid cooled. Can't remember what oil I put in it - probably synth. I got rid of it fast because cost of a tune on that thing was ridiculous and because Ducati was having engine issues at the time and wasn't paying for the failures. I think the problem was the hard plating they were using on cam lobes, mostly on the mid-sized air-cooled engines. My dealer had a failed cam on display at the parts counter. You couldn't even buy a replacement cam, let alone get one under warranty. I sold my ST4 to a guy who had 5 other Ducs and owned tools to service Desmo valves. He did all his own maintenance. He bought mine as his "reliable long distance bike". Although that bike looked great, I liked the handling on my RT better....and definitely like the position of boxer's heads for maintenance better.

I've owned 3 different air/oil cooled R bikes. Guarantee that if you put full synth in a new oilhead, hexhead or camhead (if you can find one with such low miles) after the first 600 miles, your bike will use oil about forever because the rings will never seat. That's just the way they are.

BMW recommends both dino and synth oils for these bikes. Use the recommended dino oil for 20,000 miles at least unless you really make a point of flogging the thing hard. There's tons of posts around about that. When the rings finally do their thing, the oil turns really black and the bike runs a bit smoother. I use dino oil for one more change after that. After the rings seat, synth is fine to use on air/oil cooled R bikes. You don't have to be concerned about JAS MA2 rating on the oil because all of those bikes have dry clutches, as did my Duc ST4.

My experience is nearly all with BMW save the one Duc I dumped fast and the one Aprilia I still own. I've got about 25k on the Aprilia now. I may try Rotella in it next change. I put few miles on it but the trade value on it is zilch and it's a blast to ride. I can't let it go. In a couple years, I can put antique plates on it.

 

[Krons]

A wet-clutch motorcycle is not a Japanese car. If you put Mobil 1 or equivalent in your wet clutch bike, the clutch is going to slip.

Are you talking Mobil 1 JASO motorcycle oil or Mobil 1 automotive energy conserving oil?

I’ve never hear of their motorcycle oil causing clutch issues, although some forums comment ‘clutch grip’ can feel different than other oils…kind of like shift quality differences of oils.

 

[Krons]

I was just wondering it anyone had tried it in any BMW motorcycle. I’ve currently got a 2016 r1200GSA and live in the south so it’s probably not too thick. But as I said I’m running R6 5w40 with JASO MA2 on the label. BUT I’m reading online (rumor? Fact? It’s on the internet so only Al Gore may know) that the Kirkland heavy duty 15w40 diesel oil meets JASO MA2 even though it doesn’t say this on the label.

I read a while back that Rotella for years met the spec but didn’t go through the effort to pay for the certification which is apparently expensive. Could Google to verify that. In reality nearly all diesel oils do not have friction modifiers, which is what kills the wet clutches…but safest bet it stay with oil with a JASO MA2 label.

My question is has anyone tried it in any BMW motorcycle?

Will be interesting if some have, guessing it would be a small crowd. A ThumperTalk thread on the Kirkland oil and JASO, different bikes/design of course:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1365927-rotella-15w-40-vs-kirkland-15w-40/

 

[PatM]

BMW recommends both dino and synth oils for these bikes. Use the recommended dino oil for 20,000 miles at least unless you really make a point of flogging the thing hard. There's tons of posts around about that. When the rings finally do their thing, the oil turns really black and the bike runs a bit smoother. I use dino oil for one more change after that. After the rings seat, synth is fine to use on air/oil cooled R bikes. You don't have to be concerned about JAS MA2 rating on the oil because all of those bikes have dry clutches, as did my Duc ST4.

My experience is nearly all with BMW save the one Duc I dumped fast and the one Aprilia I still own. I've got about 25k on the Aprilia now. I may try Rotella in it next change. I put few miles on it but the trade value on it is zilch and it's a blast to ride. I can't let it go. In a couple years, I can put antique plates on it.

Inquiring mind wants to know, are you talking about air/oil bikes or lc? I have not read in my owners manual that BMW recommends mineral based oils in the wetheads. Only synthetic.

 

[GrayBeard]

Rotella T6 is JASO MA/MA2 rated synthetic. I know people that run oils that are not so rated and have had no problems. I usually just buy the oil change kit including the oil from my dealer unless I'm doing one on the road. This summer I put about 8500 miles on a dealer oil change, and being overdue, I then did an oil and filter change using Rotella T6 I purchased at an Autozone and did the change at a friend's house before riding the last 900+ miles home on it.

 

[Ryno23]

View attachment 34017

View attachment 34018

oil threads are entertaining to say the least...🍿🍺
cheers 🍻

Only thing better is tire threads.

 

[Freedomrider1776]

OK. I'm sold.

When I run out of Lubri-Moly motorcycle oil, I'll switch to Rotella 5W40 full synth. Seems as if it's the exact same stuff for about ⅓ the price of the cheapest Lubri-Moly source. Thanks for the convincing post. I hope my bike doesn't die from the inside.

However, not sold on regular 87 octane gas. There is a significant difference there. If your bike has knock sensors (not all modern BMW R bikes do) 87 will work in a pinch but with reduced engine performance, which you don't need until you do. Also, I'll be sticking with major brands because I know that the little guys have been caught cutting corners on sulphur content in their fuels and don't use as sophisticated additive packages. Top Tier or major brand like BP, Mobil, Shell only for me.

In the 90's, BMW aluminum V-8s in 5 and 7 series cars were extensively tested world-wide before release. Millions of miles in all sorts of conditions. In spite of all that, they started having to replace these engines in the midwest and southeast US. The source of the problem turned out to be a couple of small refineries that had 4 or 5 times the allowable sulphur in their products. The sulphurous fuel was eating the Nikasil type coating off of the cylinder walls causing massive oil consumption, very poor performance and, occasionally catastrophic failures.

The statement that regular has the same additives as premium is not true for most brands.

I might consider trying Shell mid-grade (89) as an experiment.

I can tell the difference between good gas and OK gas pretty easily on the first tank. I've been on long rides and noticed that the bike is riding rough and basically not feeling smooth anymore. I think back to my last gas stop at an off-brand place that didn't offer premium. There is a difference.

I think, cumulatively, using cruddy fuel will add up to a worse-running bike over time. A good additive package keeps intake valves clean on port-injected motors like ours. High octane in a high compression engine is good because it allows full advance of the spark and full performance. Also works better pulling at low speed.

BMW doesn't sell gas to my knowledge. Why would they recommend premium fuel if the bike runs better on regular?

It's not a true synthetic, only a PAO ester synthetic like Motul 7100 is a "true synthetic". There are others, and who knows that the hell Amsoil actually is, of course they sure do love to say they are the best. I am a fan of the Rotella T6, but have a feeling that either Liqui Moly or Motul 7100 will be going in my new to me 2017.5 GS TE.

 

[Gmachine]

It's not a true synthetic, only a PAO ester synthetic like Motul 7100 is a "true synthetic". There are others, and who knows that the hell Amsoil actually is, of course they sure do love to say they are the best. I am a fan of the Rotella T6, but have a feeling that either Liqui Moly or Motul 7100 will be going in my new to me 2017.5 GS TE.

Well, I'm giving it a good test. I just got the '22 GSA back to IL from the Oregon rally, changed the oil with T6 5-40 and went down to SE Ohio for 4 days of bombing curves. No difference at all in clutch feel or engine noises. I'll tear the valve covers off soon and look at the cams. Hopefully, I'll have good things to say. Prior to this, I've only used MOTUL or Lubri-Moly synth.

Inquiring mind wants to know, are you talking about air/oil bikes or lc? I have not read in my owners manual that BMW recommends mineral based oils in the wetheads. Only synthetic.

I think that post was pretty old and I was talking about Oilheads. In fact you read the WHOLE POST, it's obvious I mean Oilheads, Hexheads and Camheads and not Wetheads or Shiftheads. Synth only for Wet-Heads and Shift-Heads! I would use dino oil after the 600 mile break-in oil was changed up until about 24K. At about 20K, I made a point to flog the thing pretty hard (fully warmed up first). Eventually something gives and the oil looks real black and the bike runs better. When that happens, the rings are seated and the bike can use synth without using a lot of oil. Since we don't have oil-consumption issues with wet and shift heads, we can and should use synth with the correct ratings from 600 miles forward. That's so much easier.

T6 5-40 is all synth and it looks to have the ratings to be OK for wet clutches. That's pretty rare for synth oils.

 

[BMWRich58]

I’m sure IF Rotella T-6 created any significant harm or increased wear to the engine or valve train,…I’d have been made aware of it a long time ago, from doing oil changes, “visual“ inspections during valve checks, or from the Dealer Tech who has done valve adjustments.
Currently at 66K+ miles and still going strong.

 

[Gmachine]

Good to hear, Rich. I just went to the dark side with you on my 1250GSA. So far, so good...and I think the bike is a little quieter. I'd been using Lubri-Moly from Beemer Boneyard.

 

[BMWRich58]

Good to hear, Rich. I just went to the dark side with you on my 1250GSA. So far, so good...and I think the bike is a little quieter. I'd been using Lubri-Moly from Beemer Boneyard.

Yeah Tom, been using the T6 since 600 mile checkup, in 2015.
Like I said, if the engine was to have “blownup” it would have 9+ years ago.

 

[racer1735]

Good to hear, Rich. I just went to the dark side with you on my 1250GSA. So far, so good...and I think the bike is a little quieter. I'd been using Lubri-Moly from Beemer Boneyard.

You mean 'Liqui-Moly'? That's good stuff. Like the fact that it is in 4 liter jugs. No worrying about how much to add when the bike takes 4 liters.

 

[Gmachine]

You mean 'Liqui-Moly'? That's good stuff. Like the fact that it is in 4 liter jugs. No worrying about how much to add when the bike takes 4 liters.

I use the jugs for my used oil.

 

[PerazziMx14]

You mean 'Liqui-Moly'? That's good stuff. Like the fact that it is in 4 liter jugs. No worrying about how much to add when the bike takes 4 liters.

I use the jugs for my used oil.

So do I. I drain the old oil into a drain pan then reinstall the drain plug and filter get out my 4L jug of oil and dump the entire contents in the oil fill opening then dump the oil from the drain pan into the empty 4L oil jug. Cap it off and put it into the shed until I have collected 10 or 15 gallon of used motor oil then I call a local that has a waste oil furnace that will swing buy and pick up all my waste oil and drop off an additional empty 5 gallon bucket for the oils that are not put back in 4L/5qt jugs. Its been a very good workable system for a few years now.

 

[BMWRich58]

My local “Advance, O’Reilly’s, Auto Zone auto parts stores, takes Waste Oil for FREE…..
Lotta independent service garages will also take waste oil to burn in their “Reznor (brand) oil heaters” that heat their garages during winter months.