[Krons]

What confuses me is that people are hyping diesel oil for motorcycles when the right oil is available for basically the same price.

Some diesel oils are JASO/JASO2, so the right oil. Nearly always Ive found a diesel branded oil lower cost than motorcycle branded oil.

This is good oil for a pre-LC BMW R bike. Those bikes have dry clutch and a separate trans gearbox...so the engine oil is just lubing the engine......But it's not for any bike that has clutch and trans running in the engine oil, which is all liquid-cooled R-bikes. Just say no.

Last I knew Rotella T6 5w40 was JASO approved and met spec for liquid cooled boxers. 5w40 can work in an oil cooled boxer but a little light for any warmer temperatures where 20w50 is recommended. 5w40 not recommended on my 2007 manual.

 

[Gmachine]

Some diesel oils are JASO/JASO2, so the right oil. Nearly always Ive found a diesel branded oil lower cost than motorcycle branded oil.

Last I knew Rotella T6 5w40 was JASO approved and met spec for liquid cooled boxers. 5w40 can work in an oil cooled boxer but a little light for any warmer temperatures where 20w50 is recommended.

AGAIN, oil cooled and air cooled boxer motors have dry clutches. The oil does not soak the clutch plates and lining. Wet heads and shift heads need oil that will not cause the clutch to slip. They also don't like moly compounds, maybe for the same reason...slipping clutches...but it may be something else. We just don't know.

So...$67 for 4 liters, delivered, for the right stuff on Amazon? I'm there for my Shift-head with warranty left. I'm not going to experiment with high-end diesel oil to save $10 every 6,000 miles. I don't run regular gas in my bike either. I plan to keep it a while and, if I sell it, I want the next person to enjoy it as much as I do.

 

[Krons]

AGAIN, oil cooled and air cooled boxer motors have dry clutches. The oil does not soak the clutch plates and lining. Wet heads and shift heads need oil that will not cause the clutch to slip. They also don't like moly compounds, maybe for the same reason...slipping clutches...but it may be something else. We just don't know.

So...$67 for 4 liters, delivered, for the right stuff on Amazon? I'm there for my Shift-head with warranty left. I'm not going to experiment with high-end diesel oil to save $10 every 6,000 miles. I don't run regular gas in my bike either. I plan to keep it a while and, if I sell it, I want the next person to enjoy it as much as I do.

I understand all the statements you are making, dry clutch bikes pretty much any oil of correct viscosity works (non-JASO fine). JASO oil needed for wet clutches. Most diesel oils are JASO compatible as they do not have friction modifiers that cause the clutch slip issues.

Example (as noted numerous times in this thread):

$67 for 3 gallons…for the “right stuff” as it meets the specs. If riders are more comfortable with a motorcycle branded oil or the BMW oil they should go for it. Certainly everyone has their opinions on oil!
🙂

 

[Krons]

Always good to refer to the manual for the specifications, from a 2017 Riders Manual:

And a 2007 Riders Manual:

 

[PerazziMx14]

AGAIN, oil cooled and air cooled boxer motors have dry clutches. The oil does not soak the clutch plates and lining. Wet heads and shift heads need oil that will not cause the clutch to slip. They also don't like moly compounds, maybe for the same reason...slipping clutches...but it may be something else. We just don't know.

So...$67 for 4 liters, delivered, for the right stuff on Amazon? I'm there for my Shift-head with warranty left. I'm not going to experiment with high-end diesel oil to save $10 every 6,000 miles. I don't run regular gas in my bike either. I plan to keep it a while and, if I sell it, I want the next person to enjoy it as much as I do.

Oil with "friction modifiers" also called "energy conserving" AKA circle "E" oils can make wet clutches slip. The good news is any oil 30 weight or above does not contain or contain in sufficient amounts "friction modifiers" to make the clutch slip. So unless you are using 0W-5 or 5W-20 in you wet clutched bike there is little risk.

On the topic of gasoline what are you hoping to gain from not running "regular"? I mean higher octane gasoline does not have more additives and/or detergents vs regular it is just more resistant to ignite.

Using a higher-octane fuel than an engine needs can actually have detrimental effects as in excess carbon as the fuel does not burn completely.

Personally, I run 87 octane in my Hex and Wethead GS's with no effect. I'm not doing it out of frugality but rather the bikes run quit fine on 87 and there is no need to use a higher octane fuel as these are not high compression engines.

 

[TSConver]

Oil with "friction modifiers" also called "energy conserving" AKA circle "E" oils can make wet clutches slip. The good news is any oil 30 weight or above does not contain or contain in sufficient amounts "friction modifiers" to make the clutch slip. So unless you are using 0W-5 or 5W-20 in you wet clutched bike there is little risk.

On the topic of gasoline what are you hoping to gain from not running "regular"? I mean higher octane gasoline does not have more additives and/or detergents vs regular it is just more resistant to ignite.

Using a higher-octane fuel than an engine needs can actually have detrimental effects as in excess carbon as the fuel does not burn completely.

Personally, I run 87 octane in my Hex and Wethead GS's with no effect. I'm not doing it out of frugality but rather the bikes run quit fine on 87 and there is no need to use a higher octane fuel as these are not high compression engines.

Wet heads are 12.5 to 1 compression. I think I nm that is pretty high.

 

[Gmachine]

OK. I'm sold.

When I run out of Lubri-Moly motorcycle oil, I'll switch to Rotella 5W40 full synth. Seems as if it's the exact same stuff for about ⅓ the price of the cheapest Lubri-Moly source. Thanks for the convincing post. I hope my bike doesn't die from the inside.

However, not sold on regular 87 octane gas. There is a significant difference there. If your bike has knock sensors (not all modern BMW R bikes do) 87 will work in a pinch but with reduced engine performance, which you don't need until you do. Also, I'll be sticking with major brands because I know that the little guys have been caught cutting corners on sulphur content in their fuels and don't use as sophisticated additive packages. Top Tier or major brand like BP, Mobil, Shell only for me.

In the 90's, BMW aluminum V-8s in 5 and 7 series cars were extensively tested world-wide before release. Millions of miles in all sorts of conditions. In spite of all that, they started having to replace these engines in the midwest and southeast US. The source of the problem turned out to be a couple of small refineries that had 4 or 5 times the allowable sulphur in their products. The sulphurous fuel was eating the Nikasil type coating off of the cylinder walls causing massive oil consumption, very poor performance and, occasionally catastrophic failures.

The statement that regular has the same additives as premium is not true for most brands.

I might consider trying Shell mid-grade (89) as an experiment.

I can tell the difference between good gas and OK gas pretty easily on the first tank. I've been on long rides and noticed that the bike is riding rough and basically not feeling smooth anymore. I think back to my last gas stop at an off-brand place that didn't offer premium. There is a difference.

I think, cumulatively, using cruddy fuel will add up to a worse-running bike over time. A good additive package keeps intake valves clean on port-injected motors like ours. High octane in a high compression engine is good because it allows full advance of the spark and full performance. Also works better pulling at low speed.

BMW doesn't sell gas to my knowledge. Why would they recommend premium fuel if the bike runs better on regular?

 

[PerazziMx14]

Personally I run engine oil in the specified weight that meets or exceeds manufacturer requirements. Brand or shape of the bottle is irrelevant.

 

[PerazziMx14]

I'm not sue an engine prefers or can differentiate between conventional, semi synthetic or full synthetic earl.

 

[Krons]

Post '12/13 wetheads specifify syn, but not before that.

It’s a little bit by default as you’d have to look pretty hard to find a conventional JASO 5w40 oil.

Seems on the auto side conventionals are being phased out and price difference to synthetics getting smaller.

 

[eburr]

I meant to offer no advice on the subject above. I personally use (in 40-90 degree riding climates), 15/40 Shell conventional in both oilheads and my two Hex's, changed every 5K.

 

[Gmachine]

I meant to offer no advice on the subject above. I personally use (in 40-90 degree riding climates), 15/40 Shell conventional in both oilheads and my two Hex's, changed every 5K.

Just be aware that the LC and Shift-Head bikes require different stuff.

I've had a hex and a couple oil-heads. I did similar for the first 20K or so, then used synthetic. Once the rings really seat, they stop using oil and you can use the good stuff....It's possible you don't need to and the bike will last just as long...I don't really know. Lots of others use non-synth in them. I think you get more temp tolerance and easier warm-ups with synth, but it does cost more. ...All good!

 

[Turtle]

Has anyone tried the Costco heavy duty 15w40 diesel oil? It’s reported to meet the manuals specs. It’s reported being 15w40 it won’t have any energy conserving friction modifiers and should work with a wet clutch. So it should meet JASO MA2 even though the label doesn’t state that (rotella T6 states that now but didn’t for like 10 years and probably met it the whole time).

Black stone labs says the Kirkland/Costco oils are good oils in their tests and lubricant engines well. They are made by Warren and are probably the same as Supertech at Walmart (also made by Warren). 3 gallons for $27

One reason for running alternate oils is when you are blessed (or stupid) enough to have half a dozen different engines in your garage and you wonder if there is a magic oil that you might run in two or three so you don’t have so many different kinds on the shelf.

however since the bike seems happy with Rotella T6 and T6 comes in gallon jugs and it seems to take about a gallon I’ll probably keep using T6 on my bike until I can confirm the JASO MA2 speculation on Kirkland.

 

[Gmachine]

Has anyone tried the Costco heavy duty 15w40 diesel oil? It’s reported to meet the manuals specs. It’s reported being 15w40 it won’t have any energy conserving friction modifiers and should work with a wet clutch. So it should meet JASO MA2 even though the label doesn’t state that (rotella T6 states that now but didn’t for like 10 years and probably met it the whole time).

Black stone labs says the Kirkland/Costco oils are good oils in their tests and lubricant engines well. They are made by Warren and are probably the same as Supertech at Walmart (also made by Warren). 3 gallons for $27

One reason for running alternate oils is when you are blessed (or stupid) enough to have half a dozen different engines in your garage and you wonder if there is a magic oil that you might run in two or three so you don’t have so many different kinds on the shelf.

however since the bike seems happy with Rotella T6 and T6 comes in gallon jugs and it seems to take about a gallon I’ll probably keep using T6 on my bike until I can confirm the JASO MA2 speculation on Kirkland.

Turtle, either it's for an air/oil cooled R bike, which has a dry clutch that doesn't touch the oil, or it's for a water-cooled R-bike which uses a wet clutch and requires 5w40, not 15w40. You don't say which bike you want to use this oil in. "A lot of engines"????

If it's not marked JASO MA2, that should seal it. I won't use that on a BMW R bike.

If it's not the right weight, I wouldn't use it except in an emergency and then I'd change it out as soon as I could.

The fact that it's also an off-brand would put me on high alert.

Extrapolating oil and filter requirements can be dangerous. These are expensive engines. Assuming "if this, then that" with oil specs to save a couple bucks seems like a false economy. What are you going to do when you trade your bike in? Show a bunch of Costco receipts as proof you took proper care of your bike? I'd think the market for your pre-owned bike would shrink considerably.

I use only Liqui-Moly or similar brand of the exact spec that I'd get from the BMW parts counter. I use filters made by BMW OEM manufacturers. That might cost me a bit more, but I have confidence that the work I do to maintain my bike isn't going to be the cause of a failure.

This thread had me pretty much convinced that Rotella T6 5w40 full syth might be OK due to the JAS MA2 rating. I trust Shell to have good quality control and a consistent product.

I'm not sure I trust "Warren", who is likely pressed to the wall on price by Costco and Wal-Mart and maybe doesn't pay their people quite so well and stretches their few skilled people pretty far. I don't know anything about Warren specifically, but I know that this is what can happen with aftermarket suppliers selling to big-box discounters. Corners can get cut. Mistakes can be made that aren't caught. A vendor who has made a mistake chooses to cover it up instead of throwing out a massive bunch of bad product...etc. This is why you pay more for a name-brand who charges enough to make a decent profit.

Sometimes, this doesn't matter so much. A power drill fails and you take it back to the store. They give you a new one, or they don't and you have to buy a new one. Either way, you are inconvenienced a bit, but life goes on. An engine failure in the middle of nowhere can really cause some pain. You probably won't die from it, but it's not inconceivable that you might. It will cost you A LOT to repair and you'd be on your own using an off-brand, off spec oil in your bike, regardless of the make and model. I'm not going there. If it isn't even marked as the spec that BMW requires, I'm not going to use it.

 

[Krons]

Point.

The fact that it's also an off-brand would put me on high alert.

I'm not sure I trust "Warren"

Counterpoint:

10,000+ Sample Study On Motor Oil Supports What Consumer Reports Concluded A Decade Ago

As long as the oil weight and certifications match what your car needs, there is no point in paying extra for a brand name.

www.thedrive.com

Liquid cooled bikes only show 5w40 JASO MA2 in the manual. The 5 is the winter weight so could get by with a 15w40 JASO MA2 if you were in a warmer climate that never saw cold temps…but safer to go with a 5w40 JASO MA2.

Oil cooled bikes do show 15w40 in the manual for moderate temps, but need Xw50 if it is hot.

 

[Turtle]

I was just wondering it anyone had tried it in any BMW motorcycle. I’ve currently got a 2016 r1200GSA and live in the south so it’s probably not too thick. But as I said I’m running R6 5w40 with JASO MA2 on the label. BUT I’m reading online (rumor? Fact? It’s on the internet so only Al Gore may know) that the Kirkland heavy duty 15w40 diesel oil meets JASO MA2 even though it doesn’t say this on the label. It does say it has very high sheer strength. So I’m not wanting to go first but if someone else tried this ran it and their bike still shifted well afterwards I might try it so I don’t have 6 different oils in my garage. So my question is not “should I use it?” My question is has anyone tried it in any BMW motorcycle?

 

[Gmachine]

Point.

Counterpoint:

10,000+ Sample Study On Motor Oil Supports What Consumer Reports Concluded A Decade Ago

As long as the oil weight and certifications match what your car needs, there is no point in paying extra for a brand name.

www.thedrive.com

Liquid cooled bikes only show 5w40 in the manual. The 5 is the winter weight so could get by with a 15w40 if you were in a warmer climate that never saw cold temps…but safer to go with a 5w40.

Oil cooled bikes do show 15w40 in the manual for moderate temps, but need Xw50 if it is hot.

Again, apples and oranges. A wet-clutch motorcycle is not a Japanese car. If you put Mobil 1 or equivalent in your wet clutch bike, the clutch is going to slip. The clutch lining may not suspend in the oil right. There may be platings or coatings on the bike that are not compatible. Ask me how I learned that one. There may be other surfaces that will slip too much in the engine. I've heard of roller bearings that never turn with too-slick synthetic oils and develop flat spots on the rollers. Point is, you don't know what you don't know. If you want to assume you're smarter than the engine designer and also assume that the engine designer is trying to rip you off (not inconceivable). If you don't care about resale or warranty, then use whatever you like. I'm not gonna do that.

 

[JR543]

There may be platings or coatings on the bike that are not compatible.

How did you learn that one?

 

[Gmachine]

Right, I have dry clutch -2010 GS, GL-5 rated oil, I would imagine that type of oil cause the clutch to slip too much?

Dry Clutch means the oil doesn’t touch the clutch lining. Clutch is in a separate compartment.

 

[Gmachine]

How did you learn that one?

2000 Aprilia RSV Mille R… I used Mobil 1 in it and clutch started slipping in4th, 5th and 6th at mid to high revs. I changed it back to dino oil. Clutch improved but still slipped. I ended up getting a new Barnett clutch for it. No slip and still using dino in it. Wet clutches change the game a bit.