[60Aviator]

Sherman, Assuming tires are properly balanced, just like Rick said I would check spokes and rims are true.

 

[Sherman]

I can take the Mission tires well above 100 without any problems. Make sure the correct size tires were installed, spokes are tight and wheels true. Another thought is the steering damper may be worn.
I would check the tires size,rims and spokes first.

thanks for the reply. one comment was reducing tyre pressures, I dropped to 32PSi front and back to see if it would change, but no difference. (It was at 36PSI front and back) I will be checking and torquing front spokes next. My bike never came with a steering damper and the previous set of Anakee III that I bought the bike with as well as the Anakee wilds I had on my previous 2005 (stolen) I could do 120mph without the slightest wobble.
So I am thinking check spokes and make sure rim is running true, followed by setting the suspension to different levels of stiffness and see if that makes a diff. Although I dont corner on he last knobby, the tyres do have good. I worry that the back tyre grip in rain would be an issue as it is a very hard compound. But these are sensible riding considerations.

Thanks for the input so far. I will give an update once i have checked the rim.

regards

Ralph

 

[linux_tyro]

Well based on the comments on this forum, I will play with tire pressures and see if it makes a difference. I will try it out tomorrow and report back

Hello Sherman,

This is my first post here. I have a new to me '17 r1200gs Adventure with 24K miles and I am experiencing the same front end wobble that you describe with the Trailmax Mission tire. The bike had some aggressive Mitas tires and I replaced them with the DTM before I even took the bike on the road.

On my very first ride on this bike and these new tires I noticed a shimmy at around 70mph. Sometimes it occurs at a little less speed, sometimes more depending on the road surface.

Toward the end of our 300 mile ride we entered the freeway where I took it to 80mph and then 90mph as on this freeway that's what most of the cars are doing. The first time I went to make a lane change by pushing right to go right I noticed what you are calling the mini tank slap. I tried it to the left and got the same thing. So then I experimented and pushed on the bar both left and right, not a lane change, just a quick push. Same result each time. I slowed done to 60 and told those behind me to go ahead as 60mph was much more comfortable.

Now the tire shop that I use uses tire beads. I know some guys hate them but I've always had good luck with them on my '06 Tiger 955i. What I've done is had the tire broken back down and the beads removed. We had the tire balanced on a static balancer which took 7 ounces of weight to get a balance.

Today was my second ride on the bike and even with the lead balancing weights at right around 70 on the back roads we were traveling there is a distinct wobble. I didn't set the cruise and take my hands off the bars completely but with very light pressure on the bars the wobble was there. It seems the faster I go the more the wobble will present itself. Although when giving a quick push on the bar I didn't get a heavy wobble as I did when making a lane change.

I think my next step is to contact Revzilla and see if they will exchange this tire for me.

I want to mention that there are many people across three different clubs that currently run or have run these tires and none of them have experienced what I am describing. This is a bit of a let down for me because I have this problem straight out of the gate. I haven't even made the first payment on this bike yet.

Oh, I have up the pressure to 39/44 because my first ride the pressure was actually on the low side. No real changes

I'm looking for other input as well so if you guys have ideas please put it here.

Thanks guys

 

[Sherman]

Hello Sherman,

This is my first post here. I have a new to me '17 r1200gs Adventure with 24K miles and I am experiencing the same front end wobble that you describe with the Trailmax Mission tire. The bike had some aggressive Mitas tires and I replaced them with the DTM before I even took the bike on the road.

On my very first ride on this bike and these new tires I noticed a shimmy at around 70mph. Sometimes it occurs at a little less speed, sometimes more depending on the road surface.

Toward the end of our 300 mile ride we entered the freeway where I took it to 80mph and then 90mph as on this freeway that's what most of the cars are doing. The first time I went to make a lane change by pushing right to go right I noticed what you are calling the mini tank slap. I tried it to the left and got the same thing. So then I experimented and pushed on the bar both left and right, not a lane change, just a quick push. Same result each time. I slowed done to 60 and told those behind me to go ahead as 60mph was much more comfortable.

Now the tire shop that I use uses tire beads. I know some guys hate them but I've always had good luck with them on my '06 Tiger 955i. What I've done is had the tire broken back down and the beads removed. We had the tire balanced on a static balancer which took 7 ounces of weight to get a balance.

Today was my second ride on the bike and even with the lead balancing weights at right around 70 on the back roads we were traveling there is a distinct wobble. I didn't set the cruise and take my hands off the bars completely but with very light pressure on the bars the wobble was there. It seems the faster I go the more the wobble will present itself. Although when giving a quick push on the bar I didn't get a heavy wobble as I did when making a lane change.

I think my next step is to contact Revzilla and see if they will exchange this tire for me.

I want to mention that there are many people across three different clubs that currently run or have run these tires and none of them have experienced what I am describing. This is a bit of a let down for me because I have this problem straight out of the gate. I haven't even made the first payment on this bike yet.

Oh, I have up the pressure to 39/44 because my first ride the pressure was actually on the low side. No real changes

I'm looking for other input as well so if you guys have ideas please put it here.

Thanks guys

Hi Linux_tyro

So since I posted the problem with the Trailmax tyre, I have done over 5000km.about 3200mi. I have learned to live with the wobble, just changing my riding technique a bit. What I have noticed is they are super grippy on dirt. The front end also grips well on dirt in corners. I also noticed that in the wet, the back tyre is very squirly on repaired tar road. In South Africa, when the road gets little cracks in it, usually running parallel with the road, they fill it with a type of shiny bitumen. When riding straight on a wet road over that, the rear tyre walks all over the place. I am super careful on the wet tar road as the back tyre compound Is so hard, it wants to slip out.
As far as the tyre goes, it is really smooth and does not have a knobby feel at all. I did notice the front is a little whiny around 50mph but at 100 and up it is super quiet, in fact quieter than some 80/20s and certainly quieter than the Anakee III I had on when I bought the bike. The back is really quiet.
One thing I would suggest, keep an eye on your knobbies for cracks. At about the 2500mi mark I noticed a cut over a knobby. After a while it never wore out so I took it back to the dealer Bike tyre warehouse. They said it was usual for a dirt tyre, but they found a small crack at the base of the same knobby which worried him. He contacted Dunlop and after some discussion they replaced the tyre at no cost. Kudos to Dunlop.... seems it was a duff batch of tyres. And a huge thanks to Bruce from Bike tyre warehouse for making it happen.
Incidentally, I did check and the front tyre is balanced perfectly. As the tyre is rated at about 112mph I suppose pushing past 100mph is not ideal.

Thanks for your feedback. Happy trails.

 

[linux_tyro]

Hi Linux_tyro

So since I posted the problem with the Trailmax tyre, I have done over 5000km.about 3200mi. I have learned to live with the wobble, just changing my riding technique a bit. What I have noticed is they are super grippy on dirt. The front end also grips well on dirt in corners. I also noticed that in the wet, the back tyre is very squirly on repaired tar road. In South Africa, when the road gets little cracks in it, usually running parallel with the road, they fill it with a type of shiny bitumen. When riding straight on a wet road over that, the rear tyre walks all over the place. I am super careful on the wet tar road as the back tyre compound Is so hard, it wants to slip out.
As far as the tyre goes, it is really smooth and does not have a knobby feel at all. I did notice the front is a little whiny around 50mph but at 100 and up it is super quiet, in fact quieter than some 80/20s and certainly quieter than the Anakee III I had on when I bought the bike. The back is really quiet.
One thing I would suggest, keep an eye on your knobbies for cracks. At about the 2500mi mark I noticed a cut over a knobby. After a while it never wore out so I took it back to the dealer Bike tyre warehouse. They said it was usual for a dirt tyre, but they found a small crack at the base of the same knobby which worried him. He contacted Dunlop and after some discussion they replaced the tyre at no cost. Kudos to Dunlop.... seems it was a duff batch of tyres. And a huge thanks to Bruce from Bike tyre warehouse for making it happen.
Incidentally, I did check and the front tyre is balanced perfectly. As the tyre is rated at about 112mph I suppose pushing past 100mph is not ideal.

Thanks for your feedback. Happy trails.

Thanks

Thanks for the quick reply. Revzilla did get back with but they are making me jump through some hoops with pictures and video and descriptions of ten different question. I will go through there process but decided to just purchase a new tire so I can move on with my process. My thought is that if I do get a replacement from Revzilla than I will have a spare.

Can you believe that all my usual online stores have zero Dunlop Trailmax Mission in stock? Just my luck.

So I started a search for a different bias ply tire has that is what the rear is and the only thing I could find is a Heidenau K60 in the proper size. So I bought it. Perhaps I will learn if my current tire really is bad and causing my wobble or if the problem is with the bike.

We will find out because I wont be able to deal with the way the bike handles right now.

 

[Sherman]

Thanks

Thanks for the quick reply. Revzilla did get back with but they are making me jump through some hoops with pictures and video and descriptions of ten different question. I will go through there process but decided to just purchase a new tire so I can move on with my process. My thought is that if I do get a replacement from Revzilla than I will have a spare.

Can you believe that all my usual online stores have zero Dunlop Trailmax Mission in stock? Just my luck.

So I started a search for a different bias ply tire has that is what the rear is and the only thing I could find is a Heidenau K60 in the proper size. So I bought it. Perhaps I will learn if my current tire really is bad and causing my wobble or if the problem is with the bike.

We will find out because I wont be able to deal with the way the bike handles right now.

Well I hope that that will clear up the problem. K60 is quite a hard front compound though. But let me know if it still wobbles.

Safe riding.

 

[Ryno23]

Anybody have out West experience with the Missions? We have lots of steep, loose, decomposed rock; sand/fine dirt over hard; sand mixed with rubble, and deep sand. Up in Oregon & Washington, they also get mud and wet leaves.

Hey Scurvy,

I am heading out Bear Camp and the Rogue River area this weekend with my Missions.
Probably be on mountain gravel and paved mostly, but I will report back on the performance of the Missions.

 

[Candubrain]

I believe the Mission to be a great tire, but I question why one would run a bias ply tire on a bike that was designed for radial tire use? If you mostly off-road, then I can see why, but if you are at least 50% or more highway, I don't.

 

[Rick92040]

The bike was designed for both bias and radial tires. The Rally can come with bias knobby tires from the factory. I have over 7k on the missions without any problems.
I don't think the tires are his problem. If it was mine I would put it on the center stand and with the back weighted down I would shake the front and see if anything is loose.
Something is wrong with the bike and it isn't the tires.

 

[linux_tyro]

The bike was designed for both bias and radial tires. The Rally can come with bias knobby tires from the factory. I have over 7k on the missions without any problems.
I don't think the tires are his problem. If it was mine I would put it on the center stand and with the back weighted down I would shake the front and see if anything is loose.
Something is wrong with the bike and it isn't the tires.

Hi, thanks for that. I will do that this weekend and see what I can find.

 

[linux_tyro]

I believe the Mission to be a great tire, but I question why one would run a bias ply tire on a bike that was designed for radial tire use? If you mostly off-road, then I can see why, but if you are at least 50% or more highway, I don't.

Yes, I understand. I normally like radial tires as well. We have two BMW groups and one all bike groups here in North Texas and many guys are running the Trailmax Missions without a problem. It may be that on almost every ride we run into some road construction with deep gravel, sand or mud. We are left with the question of continuing down this road for 3 miles or backtrack and take a loop for thirty miles. I think a lot of guys like the Trailmax Missions for this purpose.

 

[linux_tyro]

Guys, I need to update that after taking my bike to a very knowledgeable friend we found that the steering stabilizer is basically doing nothing. it's just there. Less than 24k on this 2017 bike.

Also we found more than 10 loose spokes in the the front wheel. So I took the bike to the local BMW dealer and when I told them my issue they said that they are familiar with this. They said that they found 8 and two possible. Okay whatever.

So the local dealer is going to petition BMW for them to replace the front wheel.

On the rear they found two possible, but within tolerances.

My bike remains at the dealer for now.

If I don't get a replacement then I will send the wheel to Woody's wheelworks for a rebuild.

Thanks for all your help

 

[TNHomegrown]

I just wanted to relay my experience with the Trailmax Mission’s I just installed on the bike. My first ride was instantly somethings wrong. A significant side to side wobble at 45 to 75 mph. My BMW dealer installed the tires. I rode it straight to them. They confirmed that I had put the tires on the bike correctly and that they were balanced. This was as they were closing on Sat and would not be open until Tues. Being impatient and extremely frustrated with what the new tires were doing, I took the front wheel to my Cycle Gear dealer. He confirmed the balance indicated 0 grams and the tire was mounted with the yellow dot at the valve stem. You could visually see the side to side wobble when he spun the tire to check balance. We decided to break the bead and spin the tire 180 deg. When we did that the tire balanced with 1/4oz less weight. The tire spun noticeably truer. When riding now the front end is smooth and vibration free, what I would have expected a new tire to be. The BMW dealer tried to tell me that going from a street tire(Roadsmart 3’s) to the Trailmax Mission’s there was going to be a different type ride. Thank goodness I didn’t listen to them.

My buddy put a set on his GSA and ran fine mounted with the yellow dot at the stem. Mine didn’t and I had the same problems as Sherman describes. That would tell me that, at least this tire is rotational position dependent on the rim. If I had a machine, I could spin it 1/8 to 1/4 turn in either direction and might be able to improve on it further. I am just so happy to have it normal, I can live with that.

 

[GrayBeard]

Aligning the dot with the stem, or just the opposite, in my tire mounting experience is an outdated concept in tires. TNHomegrown's experience not withstanding, I've actually done this experiment on different tires where I dynamic computer spin balanced the rim with no tire on it; then mounted the tire and balanced it again requiring no change in weight from the wheel alone. Could the problem have been corrected by simply removing and reinstalling the tire. I could see the case where the bead wasn't completely set that would cause that problem. If the actual tire was not true then removing it, spinning it on the rim and remounting it shouldn't have changed anything - well, unless the rim isn't true. Did you check the runout in the rim?

EDIT: now that I think about it, these tires have a very stiff sidewall which would probably be more likely to carry though any problem with the rim not being true to show up in ride - maybe more so than other softer side wall tires?

 

[linux_tyro]

Thank you both TNHomegrown and Greybeard. I will keep both of these replys in mind. BMW is going to cover half the cost of the wheel. My half pulse labor will cost me about $850. I need to see if they checked the cost with my extended warranty first though. The bike still had three years warranty when I bought it. I laid to transfer but haven't heard back from the warranty company

 

[TNHomegrown]

Aligning the dot with the stem, or just the opposite, in my tire mounting experience is an outdated concept in tires. TNHomegrown's experience not withstanding, I've actually done this experiment on different tires where I dynamic computer spin balanced the rim with no tire on it; then mounted the tire and balanced it again requiring no change in weight from the wheel alone. Could the problem have been corrected by simply removing and reinstalling the tire. I could see the case where the bead wasn't completely set that would cause that problem. If the actual tire was not true then removing it, spinning it on the rim and remounting it shouldn't have changed anything - well, unless the rim isn't true. Did you check the runout in the rim?

EDIT: now that I think about it, these tires have a very stiff sidewall which would probably be more likely to carry though any problem with the rim not being true to show up in ride - maybe more so than other softer side wall tires?

The bead indicators on the front tire indicated that the tire was fully and evenly seated. The tires that came off were Dunlop Roadsmart 3’s. They rode and handled better than my K1600GT. I was just trying to relay that I had just had a similar bad experience with the new Dunlop Trailmax Mission’s that others complained about, and what fixed it for me.

 

[Ryno23]

Hey Scurvy,

I am heading out Bear Camp and the Rogue River area this weekend with my Missions.
Probably be on mountain gravel and paved mostly, but I will report back on the performance of the Missions.

As promised, the tires performed spectacularly on Bear Camp and Crater Lake twisties. Stayed turned in on all turns. No wobble. Only did small sections of gravel and no issues there. Highway was quiet and smooth, again no issues.

 

[GrayBeard]

The bead indicators on the front tire indicated that the tire was fully and evenly seated. The tires that came off were Dunlop Roadsmart 3’s. They rode and handled better than my K1600GT. I was just trying to relay that I had just had a similar bad experience with the new Dunlop Trailmax Mission’s that others complained about, and what fixed it for me.

And I didn't mean to imply you did anything wrong but searching for an explanation why your tires did something I haven't seen and why remounting them fixed it.

 

[Scurvy]

Hey Scurvy,

I am heading out Bear Camp and the Rogue River area this weekend with my Missions.
Probably be on mountain gravel and paved mostly, but I will report back on the performance of the Missions.

That will be a great TR to hear from you, e are eagerly waiting. 👍🏼👍🏼

 

[Scurvy]

Oh those stock steering dampers….

My assessment is that they add weight to the bike and that’s about it. Sadly, that implies we need to spend a lot on a real quality damper.